Matrix Games Forums

So I am looking at my fleet of subs with the Glen float planes. They use the Amakazi engines which I would like to discontinue.

Is there any reason I could not upgrade the float planes on the subs from Glen to Jake?

I think that is no problem in the game but in reality it would not work because the Jake is much too big to fit in a submarine hangar.
I stay with the Glens because of this.

A lot of people use HRs that mandate using Glens on submarines. You have a lot of engines, you can run the factory for a month or so to make more and that should last you through the war. The only difference is using those float torpedo bombers on those specific submarines that were designed to use them. That is, if you get that far.

It would be considered "gamie" to use Jakes on subs. unfortunately many naval air types are misused by players, most unknowingly, such as using certain aircraft on CV type ships that were not capable of handling them. but such details are usually ignored. However using the Jake on a sub is way too egregious.....

I use the Pete. Problably still as bad but my knowledge on this is limited.

Chris21wen wrote: Thu Sep 18, 2025 5:58 am I use the Pete. Problably still as bad but my knowledge on this is limited.

only the Glens will fit.

dr.hal wrote: Wed Sep 17, 2025 7:31 pm It would be considered "gamie" to use Jakes on subs. unfortunately many naval air types are misused by players, most unknowingly, such as using certain aircraft on CV type ships that were not capable of handling them. but such details are usually ignored. However using the Jake on a sub is way too egregious.....

Well, this player put a sub under my carriers on the first turn of the game so....

Still, I am going to agree that changing over is too 'gamey' for me to use. Probably just frontload a bunch of engines before converting to another model. I have already lost around 11 with 27 in the pools and about 100 engines in storage. Worried that I could run out without more.

Mike McCreery wrote: Thu Sep 18, 2025 6:23 pm

dr.hal wrote: Wed Sep 17, 2025 7:31 pm It would be considered "gamie" to use Jakes on subs. unfortunately many naval air types are misused by players, most unknowingly, such as using certain aircraft on CV type ships that were not capable of handling them. but such details are usually ignored. However using the Jake on a sub is way too egregious.....

Well, this player put a sub under my carriers on the first turn of the game so....

Still, I am going to agree that changing over is too 'gamey' for me to use. Probably just frontload a bunch of engines before converting to another model. I have already lost around 11 with 27 in the pools and about 100 engines in storage. Worried that I could run out without more.

That is a lot of Glens lost already. Maybe switch them to night search if they are being shot down by CAP. Which, since naval search may detect 4 hexes away from the launching ship, then you might just as well have the naval search range set to 0.

To elucidate on this topic:

The Glen is the only plane capable on the early war IJN subs. The Glen was actually disassembled to fit into the hangar, and re-assembled to launch. It was a +2 hour procedure and required calm seas to perform.

As noted by others, the game allows you to use other FP's, but it is REALLY gamey to do so.


Later in the game, another sub carrier class arrives that can use the Myoko. This likely could also have used other FP's IF they had been fitted with correct launching gear. They used one of several types, either rocket or explosive boosts to launch them. This type of assist was not unusual in wwii. I've never done a deep dive into which FP models they might have used, so I cannot be more specific.

I often wondered how effective Glen are to nav search? With a small range and carrying only one I'd say limited but never bothered to find out. I don't build Glens for this reason, got much better use for their factories (and engine factoory) so I'll either continue to use the Pete or just not bother with sub based ac at all.

As far as the Pete goes it's a better ac (exp endurance) but also very short legged and I never bother building that either, I replace it with the Jake which results in having a lot of spare Petes. But as pointed ' will it fit on the ship' is ignored,

Glens can be effective as early warning barriers for the Japs if the weather cooperates... Petes can't be on sobs. I use Glen equipped subs as a sort of tripwire outside of remote islands and they work ok. It's the best Japs have until radar comes along.

So before radar yes, after no. Are you refering to rader in general or radar on subs? If it's the latter then that's a good chunk of time.

Ignoring the use of Petes on subs, why do you say Pete don't do the job?

radar on subs.... surface radar is only one hex, but air radar sweeps wider and can detect air at greater ranges, thus "early" warning...

dr.hal wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 2:21 pm radar on subs.... surface radar is only one hex, but air radar sweeps wider and can detect air at greater ranges, thus "early" warning...

I think that you are incorrect. I do believe that radar only works within the hex but a greater range than one hex increases the odds for detection. But the aerial naval search will automatically search 4 hexes away although that does not guarantee detection.

RangerJoe wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 2:39 pm

dr.hal wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 2:21 pm radar on subs.... surface radar is only one hex, but air radar sweeps wider and can detect air at greater ranges, thus "early" warning...

I think that you are incorrect. I do believe that radar only works within the hex but a greater range than one hex increases the odds for detection. But the aerial naval search will automatically search 4 hexes away although that does not guarantee detection.

What is your source for aerial naval search "4 hexes away"? the only range figure I've ever seen for air radar is that associated with the equipment list. As for me being "incorrect" my post was referring to surface detection range being about one hex but I was not clear on that; but it was not "incorrect". each hex represents a span of 40 NM.

Either Alfred or one of the Air Model programmers informed us that if there are any aircraft flying from a base (even training within the hex) there is a chance of detection of enemies out to 4 hexes.

Surface eyeball detection at sea is about 11 nautical miles in any direction (horizon, mist) so a ship/TF in the middle of the hex only covers a 22 NM diameter within the 40NM hex. Surface radar is deemed to only work to the edge of the hex but even that is too far for most detection. Size of the target relative to earth's curvature makes it iffy. I don't recall ever seeing a surface detection by radar over 37K yards (about 18.5 NM).

BB, I understand all about "height of eye" and target height above the horizon, I have spent years at sea (literally) and way too many hours staring at a PPI display. My question concerns definitive statements about the GAME that are often made with little or no sources put forth. I think we all agree that the earth is round and thus the horizon, etc. What I'm not privy to are the minds and reasoning of the game creators and thus the thought processes that were used in the rules creation. If others are, leading to these definitive statements, all I seek is understanding of that knowledge.... sharing is a wonderful thing!

dr.hal wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 6:40 pm BB, I understand all about "height of eye" and target height above the horizon, I have spent years at sea (literally) and way too many hours staring at a PPI display. My question concerns definitive statements about the GAME that are often made with little or no sources put forth. I think we all agree that the earth is round and thus the horizon, etc. What I'm not privy to are the minds and reasoning of the game creators and thus the thought processes that were used in the rules creation. If others are, leading to these definitive statements, all I seek is understanding of that knowledge.... sharing is a wonderful thing!

Remind me not to answer your questions. You want Alfred who was driven away from the forums.

RangerJoe wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 10:37 pm Remind me not to answer your questions. You want Alfred who was driven away from the forums.

FYI; Alfred was NOT "driven away" as you put it. In fact he has the green light to return whenever he wants, he has chosen not to.

dr.hal wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 10:49 pm

RangerJoe wrote: Sat Oct 04, 2025 10:37 pm Remind me not to answer your questions. You want Alfred who was driven away from the forums.

FYI; Alfred was NOT "driven away" as you put it. In fact he has the green light to return whenever he wants, he has chosen not to.

FYO; He was driven away.