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Hi all...

I couple question on mines.

1) is there a mine clearing tank for the germans? If so where I must have missed it in the buy/encyclopedia.

2) What is the best method to get through a mine field with a human opponent with out losing too much?

I know how to clear mines ie squads in the hex, engineers pointed at the hex with mines in it. Any hints on good mine clearing techniques?

jam

Jamminji wrote:Hi all...

I couple question on mines.

1) is there a mine clearing tank for the germans? If so where I must have missed it in the buy/encyclopedia.

2) What is the best method to get through a mine field with a human opponent with out losing too much?

I know how to clear mines ie squads in the hex, engineers pointed at the hex with mines in it. Any hints on good mine clearing techniques?

jam

1) To my knowledge, no.

2) Jokingly, to put your fingers in your ears and stomp vigourusly in front of you. Vs. a human opponent, the best way is to drive right through the hex and hope you won't set too many off - a blast will likely only kill one or two in a squad.

The other method involves concentrating many squads to clear a single hex, and use SMOKE to protect them. I usually use 2-4 squads, engineers if possible ofcourse. Did I mention SMOKE? If there isn't a good enemy defence right behind the field, it's usually enough to clear a one hex lane, but if you're facing ATG positions and bunkers, you might need to breach at several places.

The other other method (heh), is ofcourse the one of indirect removal - heavy artillery and/or flamethrowers. 150mm artillery will clear mines, and so will 'z-firing' a flamethrower into the hex. The latter is no doubt the quickest approach, so if you have FTs around, use them.

There is a German mineclearing tank in the Czech oob's 'Scenario designer rare items' list.

Voriax

why do flamethrowers clear mines ?

Frank W. wrote:why do flamethrowers clear mines ?

I think it's a glitch in the game system (flamethrowers have an HE equivalence for combat resolution). It's always seemed too gamey for me to use, but I tend to play against the computer.

I believe your chances of setting off a mine are directly correlated with your speed. I've found you can get through most mine fields without damage if you move at one hex per turn.

Only vehicular flamethrowers can clear mines from a hex (and AT obstacles and Wire, too BTW) They must have an HE value of 200 to do this trick. Infantry flamethrowers and some very early FT vehicles only have HE values of 150. They will NOT clear mines (except by exploding themselves ).

Aside from the normal methods of mine removal, Engineers occupying a mined hex can reduce the possiblity of a transitting unit blowing up in that occupied hex. They can 'Hold the gate open' for other units. String your Engineers 2 or 3 deep through a minefield, cross your fingers, and Go! It's not 100% foolproof, but it can speed up your Assault considerably.

Cavalry and Motorcycles can sometimes transit a minefield that is 2 or three hexes deep with minimal losses. It appears to me that if you enter the mined hex using the Shift key (as if you were entering a unit-occupied hex), that the probability of blowing a mine is reduced.

Once the Cav or MCs break on through to the other side, your opponent is going to have a whole different set of issues to deal with. Meanwhile, your Engineers can nibble away elsewhere in the minefield in a more conventional manner.

Thanks for all the help guys. My main concern is losing an important tank/SP etc. No matter how slow you drive (one hex at a time) it seems that they go boom! I like the idea that engineers may help to guide motor units through. I will have to try that.

jam

Frank W. wrote:why do flamethrowers clear mines ?

Think of the mines as being tin cans full of explosives (forgetting about the trigger assembly). Would you want to hold a torch to such a thing?

While there were many different kinds of explosives used, TNT can be given as an example. TNT is actually fairly hard to ignite by heat alone, it takes a lot of it to set it off but once it gets hot enough, it will explode. The usual way to set TNT off is with a detonator that causes compression as well as heat, sort of like a diesel engine.

When I was in the artillery, at the end of an exercise we always had to dispose of the unused cordite. We did this by setting the bags of cordite out in a long line down the middle of a dirt road, each bag touching the next one. Then we went up and lit it. The first time, going up and touching a match to cordite seems like suicide but in fact, it wouldn't explode and was very hard to get started. Once it did start though, it burned with an intense heat for a long time. We actually used small amounts of cordite sometimes for BBQ lighter to start our campfires.

A man-carried flamethrower just doesn't last long enough to get hot enough to set the TNT off but a vehicle mounted flamer carries a lot more fuel and so can do the job. Onc ethe heat reaches a certain point

The disadvantage of flamethrowers is that it creates a hex that will cause you suppression if you end up stopping in it. This will happen with a flametank if the next hex also has mines in it.

An advantage/disadvantage is that the fire also create impenetrable smoke.

I remember playing a scenario which had a tank called a "mineram"[looked like a PZiii] which I utilized as per the flail and like equipment.Guess what ,didnt work and isnt in the encyclopedia.
Maybe its that czech one.-REMEMBER THEY MAKE SKODAS AND THEYRE CRAP!
Reminds me of a fact:that Skodas have rear demisters? -to keep your hands warm while you push them! :p

MOTHER wrote:I remember playing a scenario which had a tank called a "mineram"[looked like a PZiii] which I utilized as per the flail and like equipment.Guess what ,didnt work and isnt in the encyclopedia.
Maybe its that czech one.-REMEMBER THEY MAKE SKODAS AND THEYRE CRAP!
Reminds me of a fact:that Skodas have rear demisters? -to keep your hands warm while you push them! :p

What do you hold against the Skodas?

AFAIK they're pretty reliable, esp. the newer models!

Its just a joke mate! .From where I'm from its so old that you could put any make in there ,even HOLDEN [at least some of our exotic readers have heard of them],and I drive one! ,but everyone knows Skoda.
Really, the Czech's should keep to what they know best,Astronomical clocks,King Wenschlas christmas carols,Schwarzkopf Crystal,Bata shoes, humongas Metronomes , and Slovice!-those things have been around longer than you & I,and there some of the many things I remember about my 2 visits ,not only to Prague but to many a fair town in your corner of the world.Bet you cant say that about where Im from? :p
So speaking from experience lets leave it at that
P.S. The parliment house on top of that steep hill from King Geoge XII ? Bridge is a dead set copy of the one in Melbourne.
OSCAR SUSAN [ eldest son of ] one of the 3 founding members of the Studebaker Car Club of Australia.[We all have a skeleton in our closet] aka MOTHER :rolleyes:

Here's a link to a photo of a German mine clearing tank circa 1942. Not much info and I couldn't find any other references.

Also, check out that 60cm mortar!

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html

Easy8 wrote:Here's a link to a photo of a German mine clearing tank circa 1942. Not much info and I couldn't find any other references.

Also, check out that 60cm mortar!

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html

That's an Alkett Minenraum. It was supposed to drive over the mines, detonating them and surviving in the process
Prototype(s) only afaik.

Voriax

I thought they converted a few Panzer IV's over to mine clearers by putting a large roller on the front
Am I wrong?

MOTHER wrote:I remember playing a scenario which had a tank called a "mineram"[looked like a PZiii] which I utilized as per the flail and like equipment.Guess what ,didnt work and isnt in the encyclopedia.

In H2Hfr there is one in the Norway OoB's, it's the SdKfz 300B

Slovice - plum brandy yummm!!1
cesky kromlov is the best town in czech. prague is for tourists.

Easy8 wrote:Here's a link to a photo of a German mine clearing tank circa 1942. Not much info and I couldn't find any other references.

Also, check out that 60cm mortar!

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html

That 60cm is HUGE!

Btw, note the funny (but correct) russian designations on the vehicles; T-4, SU-75 etc. :p

Belisarius wrote:That 60cm is HUGE!

Check this page: http://www.geocities.com/ssvong/morser/karl_main.htm
*Very* good info.
Also from here: http://www.panzerlexikon.de you can d/l a short movie clip of Karl firing. Linnks badly so you have to go to the site and select Video-clips from left frame.

Voriax

Mangobreeder wrote:Slovice - plum brandy yummm!!1
cesky kromlov is the best town in czech. prague is for tourists.

Ahh, now I know You mean Slivovice! (I wasn't able to recognize it at first as I'm not too much familliar with the alcoholic drinks:))

Cesky Krumlov - nice city, I like it too. Visit of the mine recommended (I hope there are still visits for tourists, I was there three years ago and they were tellign that the mine is going to close down, but that they hope they'll be able to run the visits still).

Prague - too large, too many people:) I don't like crowds:) I know what I'm speaking of - in last semesters I had to visit one department of my school that is located right in the center - terrible:)

Easy8 wrote:Here's a link to a photo of a German mine clearing tank circa 1942. Not much info and I couldn't find any other references.

Also, check out that 60cm mortar!

http://www.tankmuseum.ru/p6.html

There were two projects of such MC vehicles, both wheeled and both working on the principle they'll roll over mine to let it explode. Both worked on the concepts of two halves, each one with its own engine and one pair of giant wheels, which were connected in the middle. THe one on the photo was intended to be armed with two Pz-I turrets, the second project was to be unarmed.

Nice pictures are also in the US/UK section, the Pershing and Sherman with cat-nose-art:))