New and need help.
Moderators: Joel Billings, Tankerace, siRkid
New and need help.
New to this game and have been playing about a week. I have the same problems others have commented on. Is there a FAQ or bug list? I am patched to 2.3.
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CapAndGown
- Posts: 3078
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:00 am
- Location: Virginia, USA
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Damien Thorn
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:20 am
I have not found FAQs, postings and the game's documentation helping me for things like:
1. Why does my land-based air not intercept enemy fleets? (Yes, the weather is clear, the morale is high, the supplies are more than enough, the command is good, they are in range and spotted.)
2. When I load units from a port with plenty of transports, not all parts of the units load.
3. When I re-base air units from one place to another, they change type of aircraft and frequently disappear.
4. Why do my transport ships (Allied) load the enemy (Japanese)?
5. My surface fleets do not intercept. My fleets on bombardment are resolved piecemeal...maybe not a bug, but then why does the game split my fleets when the ships on bombardment only differ by four knots?
There is more.
I am patched to 2.3. I play the allies always.
1. Why does my land-based air not intercept enemy fleets? (Yes, the weather is clear, the morale is high, the supplies are more than enough, the command is good, they are in range and spotted.)
2. When I load units from a port with plenty of transports, not all parts of the units load.
3. When I re-base air units from one place to another, they change type of aircraft and frequently disappear.
4. Why do my transport ships (Allied) load the enemy (Japanese)?
5. My surface fleets do not intercept. My fleets on bombardment are resolved piecemeal...maybe not a bug, but then why does the game split my fleets when the ships on bombardment only differ by four knots?
There is more.
I am patched to 2.3. I play the allies always.
Fairly new myself, but here's what I have learned so far.
1. Why does my land-based air not intercept enemy fleets? (Yes, the weather is clear, the morale is high, the supplies are more than enough, the command is good, they are in range and spotted.)
Three reasons I have found for this a) Task Force Cap - there is a check that compares the cap defending the task force to the number of escorts available, if the ratio (which I haven't been able to figure out) isn't favorable the mission will not launch, 2) Some spotted TF are sub which LBA has to be on ASW missions to attack, 3) If the TF is made up of AG's, the only way to hit them is with LBA set to Naval Attack at 100' (P-39's make good barge busters)
3. When I re-base air units from one place to another, they change type of aircraft and frequently disappear.
Click on the gaining base. When you click on rebase, the display remains at the original base. This confused me at first.
4. Why do my transport ships (Allied) load the enemy (Japanese)?
As far as I know, this is a bug
5. My surface fleets do not intercept. My fleets on bombardment are resolved piecemeal...maybe not a bug, but then why does the game split my fleets when the ships on bombardment only differ by four knots?
Your surface fleets will only intercept in friendly base hexes, also units will split off if damaged and their speed is reduced to under 25 knots.
There are people who have been playing UV much longer than I have, so I may not be correct in all regards but I hope this helps.
SeaWolF
1. Why does my land-based air not intercept enemy fleets? (Yes, the weather is clear, the morale is high, the supplies are more than enough, the command is good, they are in range and spotted.)
Three reasons I have found for this a) Task Force Cap - there is a check that compares the cap defending the task force to the number of escorts available, if the ratio (which I haven't been able to figure out) isn't favorable the mission will not launch, 2) Some spotted TF are sub which LBA has to be on ASW missions to attack, 3) If the TF is made up of AG's, the only way to hit them is with LBA set to Naval Attack at 100' (P-39's make good barge busters)
3. When I re-base air units from one place to another, they change type of aircraft and frequently disappear.
Click on the gaining base. When you click on rebase, the display remains at the original base. This confused me at first.
4. Why do my transport ships (Allied) load the enemy (Japanese)?
As far as I know, this is a bug
5. My surface fleets do not intercept. My fleets on bombardment are resolved piecemeal...maybe not a bug, but then why does the game split my fleets when the ships on bombardment only differ by four knots?
Your surface fleets will only intercept in friendly base hexes, also units will split off if damaged and their speed is reduced to under 25 knots.
There are people who have been playing UV much longer than I have, so I may not be correct in all regards but I hope this helps.
SeaWolF
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Martin Sabre
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 1:58 am
- Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
I found that I had this problem when I first started, I then discovered I was trying to launch a strike from a Size 1 airfield, which according to the manual isn't possibleDBLWIDE wrote:I have not found FAQs, postings and the game's documentation helping me for things like:
1. Why does my land-based air not intercept enemy fleets? (Yes, the weather is clear, the morale is high, the supplies are more than enough, the command is good, they are in range and spotted.)
Martin
You can never find a 10-3 when you need one
You can never find a 10-3 when you need one
It does not matter.
The airfield was size six and with no damage. There were about sixty-five ready and able fighters on escort. The fighters had zero CAP assignment. I checked all of that.
Wish there was a rational or even documented reasons to help me. There are not any, even after this post.
It does not matter because I am quiting Uncommon Valor for what are obvious reasons to most. I should have known better than have picked-up a used game that somebody else already dumped.
What also makes me feel stupid is that I also bought 12 O'Clock High some time ago. I will understand "Gary Grisby" to be a warning label from now on.
Wish there was a rational or even documented reasons to help me. There are not any, even after this post.
It does not matter because I am quiting Uncommon Valor for what are obvious reasons to most. I should have known better than have picked-up a used game that somebody else already dumped.
What also makes me feel stupid is that I also bought 12 O'Clock High some time ago. I will understand "Gary Grisby" to be a warning label from now on.
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LargeSlowTarget
- Posts: 4900
- Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2000 8:00 am
- Location: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
DBLWIDE, don't give up so fast. UV isn't Pacific Admiral - it's way more complicated. There must be some reason for your LBA not to launch. If LBA would never intercept fleets by game design/quirk then nobody would play this game - but there are many happy players out there whose LBA does engage TFs. If you sent me a save file, I'll see if I can find the source of your trouble.DBLWIDE wrote:The airfield was size six and with no damage. There were about sixty-five ready and able fighters on escort. The fighters had zero CAP assignment. I checked all of that.
Wish there was a rational or even documented reasons to help me. There are not any, even after this post.
It does not matter because I am quiting Uncommon Valor for what are obvious reasons to most. I should have known better than have picked-up a used game that somebody else already dumped.
What also makes me feel stupid is that I also bought 12 O'Clock High some time ago. I will understand "Gary Grisby" to be a warning label from now on.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Thanks for the offer to analyze. However, from what I have seen here there is no explaination for the simple stuff, much less that which is complicated. I've already dumped this game. It is not the worst I played, but not too far from there.
Loading transports
Hi, You do know it takes more then 1 turn to load a transport
There is no interception by surface TF's. If they end movement in the same hex as enemy TF there will be combat.
If an enemy TF enters a hex containing one of your bases, Your surface TF's can 'react' and move there and engage in combat. You need to base the TF in range (the yellow circle) and set it to react.
Are you sure the spotted enemy TF's are surface ships and not submarine Icons? The only reason I know for LBA not to attack is if you set the altitude for level bombers to 100 feet and the groups exp is below 75.
Yes there are problems with the program. Some of them even require players to back up a turn or two now and then. I've had to repeat turns with Bosun because of his FT picking up my units. I've repeated turns with Dadman because of fast transports going whacky (It sorts out ) I've refought Carrier Battles with U2 because of wierdness. Some of the bugs escape unnoticed because you have to use your right hand on tuesday while standing on one leg while your cat sneezes in order to get them to occur. Of course they all occur at the worst possible moment in the game. Thats why there are saved game files. If your looking to beat someone it is a real pain. If your trying to have fun then you just fix problems as they happen. Every bug in order to be fixed needs a person to save a file that can duplicate the bug. (Or know the exact steps to take to make it happen ) Some bugs only occur on certain machines.
The best thing to do when a bug screws up your results is run the turn over again. Send it to someone you trust if it is a PBEM and have them run it on their machine. If you can't fix it this way back up to before the bug occured and see if you can avoid it. I've never played a computer game that did not have a bug. I've played many where the same error always occurs at the same place and there is no way to avoid it.
Things that contribute to bugs occuring in UV are actions that place alot of units in combat at a single location. Those massive IJN CV TF's have bugs following close behind them. Errors that occur when 400 AC attack a target TF in one airphase do not happen when the battles are confined to 'Midway' size or smaller.
Players who mine a hex dozens of times are laying bug bait.
Some wierd things happen by design and then require certain means to correct them. Say you have 2 AP and 2 DD in a transport TF. One of the AP is sunk and both DD rescue survivors. In order to unload the DD you have to place them in a fast transport TF because DD in transport TF's can't load troops. (They can fish them out of the water) Then you can tell them to unload.
Often it appears an error has occured when in fact it is not as bad as it looks.
You make a Transport TF and order it to load a unit. Then you check the TF and notice it has an extra ship (often damaged) and this ship is loading a unit you didn't want loaded. (or an enemy unit) So you tell the TF to unload and waste a turn. But if you make a new TF and put the bad ship into it you will often find that it has not actually loaded anything. So you can disband it back into port and your TF is fine. I think this is a hangover from where other TF's are disbanded and when you make a new TF it uses the same number and some of the old TF (Mission, units it had loaded) carry over. This tends to also mean your machine is running out of memory. (The older versions of UV used to CTD on me before I added more memory)
So yes there are problems remaining. It is still possible to play entire 635 turn campaigns without ever seeing one.
There is no interception by surface TF's. If they end movement in the same hex as enemy TF there will be combat.
If an enemy TF enters a hex containing one of your bases, Your surface TF's can 'react' and move there and engage in combat. You need to base the TF in range (the yellow circle) and set it to react.
Are you sure the spotted enemy TF's are surface ships and not submarine Icons? The only reason I know for LBA not to attack is if you set the altitude for level bombers to 100 feet and the groups exp is below 75.
Yes there are problems with the program. Some of them even require players to back up a turn or two now and then. I've had to repeat turns with Bosun because of his FT picking up my units. I've repeated turns with Dadman because of fast transports going whacky (It sorts out ) I've refought Carrier Battles with U2 because of wierdness. Some of the bugs escape unnoticed because you have to use your right hand on tuesday while standing on one leg while your cat sneezes in order to get them to occur. Of course they all occur at the worst possible moment in the game. Thats why there are saved game files. If your looking to beat someone it is a real pain. If your trying to have fun then you just fix problems as they happen. Every bug in order to be fixed needs a person to save a file that can duplicate the bug. (Or know the exact steps to take to make it happen ) Some bugs only occur on certain machines.
The best thing to do when a bug screws up your results is run the turn over again. Send it to someone you trust if it is a PBEM and have them run it on their machine. If you can't fix it this way back up to before the bug occured and see if you can avoid it. I've never played a computer game that did not have a bug. I've played many where the same error always occurs at the same place and there is no way to avoid it.
Things that contribute to bugs occuring in UV are actions that place alot of units in combat at a single location. Those massive IJN CV TF's have bugs following close behind them. Errors that occur when 400 AC attack a target TF in one airphase do not happen when the battles are confined to 'Midway' size or smaller.
Players who mine a hex dozens of times are laying bug bait.
Some wierd things happen by design and then require certain means to correct them. Say you have 2 AP and 2 DD in a transport TF. One of the AP is sunk and both DD rescue survivors. In order to unload the DD you have to place them in a fast transport TF because DD in transport TF's can't load troops. (They can fish them out of the water) Then you can tell them to unload.
Often it appears an error has occured when in fact it is not as bad as it looks.
You make a Transport TF and order it to load a unit. Then you check the TF and notice it has an extra ship (often damaged) and this ship is loading a unit you didn't want loaded. (or an enemy unit) So you tell the TF to unload and waste a turn. But if you make a new TF and put the bad ship into it you will often find that it has not actually loaded anything. So you can disband it back into port and your TF is fine. I think this is a hangover from where other TF's are disbanded and when you make a new TF it uses the same number and some of the old TF (Mission, units it had loaded) carry over. This tends to also mean your machine is running out of memory. (The older versions of UV used to CTD on me before I added more memory)
So yes there are problems remaining. It is still possible to play entire 635 turn campaigns without ever seeing one.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
The bottom line of this is to do what? Always reload the game? There are known severe bugs that never get fixed? I have dumped the game and it is because it is too full of bugs. The old hack of a bug in formal clothing is considered a feature seems to be a strong element of groupthink here. I am only responding to this post in that it appears to be addressed to or about me. I do not intend to argue the merits of this game. It would be like a debate about religion. The belief system here is obviously that Uncommon Valor is a really great and worthwhile game. Lotus Eaters.
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pasternakski
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:42 pm
All I can say, DBLWIDE, is that I think you're being way too hard on this game. Also, some of the things you mention I have never seen in a year and a half of playing (for example, I have never had any problem with loading troops onto transport TFs).
Mogami suggests the following, but I want to clarify it in light of several posts from a few people recently denigrating the quality of UV as being "buggy" or "mis-designed."
Please consider the task involved. The various mechanics built into the game anticipated a certain frame of reality that would constrain the players to act in somewhat predictable ways. There are, often, no limits on odd player behavior, because the system did not anticipate players attempting to do these things. A perfect example is the one Mogami mentions of players mining the same hex twenty or thirty times. The game engine has no idea how to handle this, because the person who wrote the code did not anticipate that players would act this way. Problems often arise in other areas, as well, for example, when players cannot resist fiddling with aircraft group assignments to carriers. If you leave 'em alone, they act just fine. When you start tampering, screwy things happen.
Yes, there are some minor aspects of the game engine that don't work very well. The worst is the one Mogami mentions, fast transport misbehavior. I am hoping that this will be one of the WitP "retro-fixes" for UV. In the meantime, my playing partners and I work around it as best we can.
In any event, I have yet to run across a "bug" or program misbehavior that ever was bad enough to "kill" a PBEM game. For me, the enjoyment far outweighs the minor problems. I continue to marvel at how well the designers and test teams were able to make this monstrosity work, given the difficulty of the undertaking. Remember that this is "virgin ground." Nobody has ever tried to design a game on this subject in this way. I am surprised that they ever got the doggone thing to work at all.
Mogami suggests the following, but I want to clarify it in light of several posts from a few people recently denigrating the quality of UV as being "buggy" or "mis-designed."
Please consider the task involved. The various mechanics built into the game anticipated a certain frame of reality that would constrain the players to act in somewhat predictable ways. There are, often, no limits on odd player behavior, because the system did not anticipate players attempting to do these things. A perfect example is the one Mogami mentions of players mining the same hex twenty or thirty times. The game engine has no idea how to handle this, because the person who wrote the code did not anticipate that players would act this way. Problems often arise in other areas, as well, for example, when players cannot resist fiddling with aircraft group assignments to carriers. If you leave 'em alone, they act just fine. When you start tampering, screwy things happen.
Yes, there are some minor aspects of the game engine that don't work very well. The worst is the one Mogami mentions, fast transport misbehavior. I am hoping that this will be one of the WitP "retro-fixes" for UV. In the meantime, my playing partners and I work around it as best we can.
In any event, I have yet to run across a "bug" or program misbehavior that ever was bad enough to "kill" a PBEM game. For me, the enjoyment far outweighs the minor problems. I continue to marvel at how well the designers and test teams were able to make this monstrosity work, given the difficulty of the undertaking. Remember that this is "virgin ground." Nobody has ever tried to design a game on this subject in this way. I am surprised that they ever got the doggone thing to work at all.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
A reply not intended as a retort.
All I can say, K.V., is that you are being too easy on the game.
It may simply be a matter of a belief system akin to religion. As stated before, no matter how much discussion goes on here, there are the zealots and unquestioning followers who continue to adhere the true faith.
There are reasons why this game is obscure at best. That is reality. If that observation of fact makes me a "dork" as you have called others then just continue to flame on; maybe you will make it to 3,000 posts someday.
What I am intrigued about is how can such a group of obviously higher-than-usual intelligent and, for the most part, well-mannered people get sucked into this. From what I gather in other posts, there just is not alot of grumbler type games out there that address the need. I do not have a special need like that. All I wanted was a playable game for my limited budget spent towards game software...and I got cheated.
It may simply be a matter of a belief system akin to religion. As stated before, no matter how much discussion goes on here, there are the zealots and unquestioning followers who continue to adhere the true faith.
There are reasons why this game is obscure at best. That is reality. If that observation of fact makes me a "dork" as you have called others then just continue to flame on; maybe you will make it to 3,000 posts someday.
What I am intrigued about is how can such a group of obviously higher-than-usual intelligent and, for the most part, well-mannered people get sucked into this. From what I gather in other posts, there just is not alot of grumbler type games out there that address the need. I do not have a special need like that. All I wanted was a playable game for my limited budget spent towards game software...and I got cheated.
Work in progress
Hi, The reason a number of people stick with the game is that as is it is playable. But most importantly we have been here from the beginning. Helped in it's creation and since it's introduction been able to through our input modify the product. Version 2.30 is nothing like version 1.00 The versions that followed were not simple bug fixes but introduced totally new features. Changes to the program are occurring everyday in WITP and will be added to UV. So we don't view UV as a done deal the way others might. We don't forgive the bugs and other issues but we know they are not permanent. Meanwhile the game is playable. I've finished several complete 600+ turn PBEM games without one bug impacting the results. (I've had a lot of PBEM games that required 'do overs' of turns impacted by bugs, but then the remaining turns functioned correctly.) It's just a question of expectations, good PBEM partners and patience.
The game provides a lot of education into the subject as well as being fun to play. There are people who get totally wrapped up solely in results. Then there are people who enjoy being part of the creation process.
The game provides a lot of education into the subject as well as being fun to play. There are people who get totally wrapped up solely in results. Then there are people who enjoy being part of the creation process.
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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pasternakski
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:42 pm
I have at times been one of the foremost critics of this game. A "bug" that I was able to identify led to patch 2.11. I was glad to contribute to the effort at improvement. Your comments here are misguided and mean.DBLWIDE wrote:It may simply be a matter of a belief system akin to religion. As stated before, no matter how much discussion goes on here, there are the zealots and unquestioning followers who continue to adhere the true faith.
There are reasons why this game is obscure at best. That is reality. If that observation of fact makes me a "dork" as you have called others then just continue to flame on; maybe you will make it to 3,000 posts someday.
This paragraph is about as dorklike as any I could imagine being written. You cite reasons, yet give none. You make two conclusory statements without support. You adopt the mantle of "help, help, I'm being repressed" when no such comment was directed at you. You insult without reason. Go away like the other dork, why don't you?
What are you, a graduate of the Tristanjohn school of charm? If your only object here is to be insulting, again, I suggest that you just go away. The rest of us have better things to do.What I am intrigued about is how can such a group of obviously higher-than-usual intelligent and, for the most part, well-mannered people get sucked into this. From what I gather in other posts, there just is not alot of grumbler type games out there that address the need. I do not have a special need like that. All I wanted was a playable game for my limited budget spent towards game software...and I got cheated.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
K.V.
So why keep sniping? I have dumped the game already. Had expected the customary "doesn't get it" remarks as is true with any cult; this is seen even in a recent post indicating perhaps that those that don't get it are, shall we say, limited in intellect or even the ability to do math. None are specific to me. You keep your comments about me as private and I will do the same. You are far more like Rizzo than Pilgrim.
The game does have a lot of frustrating features and outright bugs.
Many of the veterans have been here from the start and do not see the bugs any more. They find workarounds and use them. They even come to consider some of the bugs "normal" and not needing to be fixed.
Meanwhile the bugs go unfixed as Matrix push ahead with the bigger project - WITP.
The fact is many new users get upset by some of the crazy bugs in UV.
A lot of the workarounds are hidden in obscure threads.
Matrix can listen to these new users or ignore them and risk losing customers for WITP.
Apparently, they will ignore them until after WITP is finished and Matrix get around to a much needed patch for UV.
Personally I've had much enjoyment from UV, despite many frustrations with weird game behaviour.
I do feel however, more like a beta tester for WITP than buyer of a finished and polished product.
Many of the veterans have been here from the start and do not see the bugs any more. They find workarounds and use them. They even come to consider some of the bugs "normal" and not needing to be fixed.
Meanwhile the bugs go unfixed as Matrix push ahead with the bigger project - WITP.
The fact is many new users get upset by some of the crazy bugs in UV.
A lot of the workarounds are hidden in obscure threads.
Matrix can listen to these new users or ignore them and risk losing customers for WITP.
Apparently, they will ignore them until after WITP is finished and Matrix get around to a much needed patch for UV.
Personally I've had much enjoyment from UV, despite many frustrations with weird game behaviour.
I do feel however, more like a beta tester for WITP than buyer of a finished and polished product.
Never give up, never surrender
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pasternakski
- Posts: 5567
- Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:42 pm
Why keep posting?DBLWIDE wrote:So why keep sniping?
"I'm gonna tell you what to do, but first, I gotta get in the last public insult."You keep your comments about me as private and I will do the same. You are far more like Rizzo than Pilgrim.
Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.