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Airfield symbol colour

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:03 am
by Mike_B20
Depending on how many aircraft are based at an airfield the colour of the symbol changes.

Isn't this a dead giveaway?

How can a player build strength prior to an offensive if all his opponent has to do is look at the map to get an idea of air strength at various airfields?
Shouldn't one be forced to recon the airfield to get this information?

Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:14 am
by Subchaser
Color change to darker one when number of planes on airfield exceed 100, as I remember anchor change color when number of ships in port is also higher than 100, but I’m not sure. I’ve never checked number for troops, may be this is also tied to 100, of AS or support required or anything else equal to 100… Did anybody check this out?

This is one of most serious flaws of FoW engine in UV, but hopefully this one can be easily eliminated, just change color of icons in mapiconsA/J files in ART folder to a single one.

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:59 pm
by Damien Thorn
Subchaser wrote:This is one of most serious flaws of FoW engine in UV, but hopefully this one can be easily eliminated, just change color of icons in mapiconsA/J files in ART folder to a single one.
This will only affect what you see. If you are playing PBEM then your opponent would have to change the files on his computer too or else he will still see the color-based information.

I think a bigger fog of war breaker is that the EXACT number of planes killed each day is always listed on the report screen. Why even have fog of war if you are goin to show that information.

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:37 pm
by Mike_B20
Playing PBEM as Allies I can tell approximately how many aircraft my opponent has at his bases by looking at the shade of red.

A deep bright red means he has over 200 aircraft there.
A slightly paler shade means he has 100-200 aircraft.
A pale red means he has less than 100.

I do not need to conduct recon to get this information.

IMO the different colours are a great feature but implemented wrongly.
The colours used should change according to scouted information rather than actual numbers.
The data for scouted numbers is already in the system and would only require slight modification to make this feature great

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:26 am
by Subchaser
Damien Thorn wrote:This will only affect what you see. If you are playing PBEM then your opponent would have to change the files on his computer too or else he will still see the color-based information.
That’s what I was talking about, both players must change colors of their icons. Of course you have to trust your opponent in this case. I trust my opponents, so I play without multi-color icons and without no-fly symbol and I don’t look at mini-map during reaction phase, I’m sure that my opponents do so also. If you don’t believe in fair play you can start worry that your opponent cracked the file and got your password… who knows?
Damien Thorn wrote: I think a bigger fog of war breaker is that the EXACT number of planes killed each day is always listed on the report screen. Why even have fog of war if you are goin to show that information.
Right, but this is just top of an iceberg of FoW flaws(or shortcoming) in UV.

1) As you said, number and type of enemy a/c destroyed, with knowledge of replacement rates this really helps.
2) Number of enemy troops/equipment destroyed.
3) Number of enemy sortie flown, one day it can jump unusually high, right! enemy carriers left port and probably approach your base.
4) No-fly symbol can show you location of undetected enemy TF or enemy ground unit outside a base. Example- as soon as Kanga Force leaves Wau enemy detect this and then monitor unit's movement during bad weather days.
5) You know when his ships hit mines, and what troops were picked up from a sea on rescue mission.
6) You can say from what exactly enemy base air raid has arrived. Well in UV this doesn’t really matter, but in WitP will be a problem.
7) You can always say what damage your air/bombardment raid did to enemy base, how many bombs/shells hit what, percent of supplies destroyed can be calculated, what a/c were destroyed, number of ground personnel killed (this can be only eng or AA units) what ships caught shells in port. In reality this is subject of guesstimates.
8) Level of damage suffered by enemy ships in combat is almost always surprisingly correct.
9) You get hard data on all enemy sunk within 60 days.
10) You can see all enemy surface TFs on mini-map during reaction phase.
11) You don’t have to recon enemy base to discover how fast build-up of airbase and port proceed there, just place a mouse pointer on a base icon.
12) Air reconnaissance gives you unrealistic details on enemy troops in certain hex, how many units (although it is not always accurate) and what these units are, eng or infantry, AA or artillery. Then player who can count and played for opposite side before can tell what enemy troops where.
13) During combat animation sequences you can see what exactly enemy air groups participate in attack, so you aware of a fresh units and if these are carrier borne a/c you can figure out what exactly enemy CVs launched this attack.
14) Wherever enemy land his troops, at base or in undeveloped hex you can see them.
15) Airfield/port/troops symbols give you information on enemy aircraft/ships/troops presence at any of his base, with color gradation for better determination.
16) TF on ‘retirement allowed’ receive super-radar, which can detect enemy carriers 300-400 miles away, then TF successfully retreats ‘TF xxx retreating from enemy carriers’, it doesn’t matter that player is actually unaware of enemy CVs presence. 90% of CV battles are head-on egagements because of it.
17) You always know a number of enemy personnel, guns, vehicles in a hex where ground combat take place, as well as composition of enemy troops.

…and so on.

This is not a bug list, I understand that many of these points are shortcomings of a turn-hex-based game engine, but some can be easily removed from the game.

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:26 pm
by Micah Goodman
Damien Thorn wrote:I think a bigger fog of war breaker is that the EXACT number of planes killed each day is always listed on the report screen. Why even have fog of war if you are goin to show that information.
Isn't that number the number of planes your side claims to have killed in a day? I have seen combats where I have lost more planes shot down than I actually sent.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:03 am
by USSMaine
I think he's talking about the intel screen, where aircraft losses are listed accurately. The obvious answer is if you don't want these reports, don't go there - kind of like those people that play (or supposedly play) games in "ironman mode" - more power to those that have the self-discipline to accomplish that.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:17 am
by Subchaser
USSMaine wrote:kind of like those people that play (or supposedly play) games in "ironman mode" - more power to those that have the self-discipline to accomplish that.
I believe you’re referring to me, but I’m not suffering from a lack of self-discipline. The list above shows the things I want to be changed, these are flaws and not my ways to collect info on enemy. Information coming from such sources hardly can be ignored, or you have to turn off combat reports or don’t watch reaction phase at all and forget about intel screen. What should I do if I don’t want to see this ‘illegal’ info and still have to see other vital info coming with it? There is no substitute for data on enemy losses, combat outcomes etc. Game design forces you to see this or to ignore and lose.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:20 am
by USSMaine
Subchaser - I wasn't having a go at you - my apologies for the misunderstanding - the "ironman" was aimed at the kiddies that play crpgs and tank rush rts ....

As for combat reports, you can still have access to the information you want - just don't use the button that gives the exact losses by plane type. For me at least, the generic numbers just give me a 'sense' of how I am doing without giving me the detailed info. The biggest drawback there is that when a ship sinks, any planes that are lost with it show in the "on field" category.....

And I believe me - I have no discipline whatsoever.....