Matrix Games Forums

the first SNOW turn has arrived @ Nov 02 41.
The Germans made a major push toward Moscow...but appeared to have failed. Should the G press on in snow to try and capture Moscow...or hunker down for the coming blizzard season? The question is urgent.

It is anticipated that the R have moved MOST of their factories out of Moscow by now. Leningrad was found EMPTY.

A unit NW of Moscow took 3-5 air attacks and 3 G korps failed to dislodge it over each of 2 consecutive mud turns. This is considered to have broken the German morale.

Enjoy the pictures. It is likely the last forward movement of the Germans in this game.

Casualty total would be helpful. Taking Moscow would be nice, but is very difficult that late in the game, and might lead to some units being cut off. I find gutting Ivan is a fair alternative to taking the Kremlin. ...by gutting, I mean destroying at least 100K squads. That plus the loss of Leningrad will make his winter assault pretty anemic (having been there, myself)

Definitely. You have 2 PzKorps at the decisive spot.

well, unless the Sov's told you by email leningrad was empty there's no way you can know what factories you nailed! and even then i wouldn't believe him!

it might be too late to do this, but make a defensive line right now as close as possible to the front line. go after moscow so you can at least gut what's left, then withdraw to the new line. it works better if you do it in advance, of coarse. you'l still be plenty close for another attempt in '42!

Casualties of Oct 26 :
Axis Russian
Sqd 14,174 71,153
T 2,009 11,747
G 4,317 21,157
Air 2,795 14,905

For Flanker Leader...yes, One can tell what one has captured! After you capture the R city, do an Alt R....The captured R factories will show up as taking a very long time before they can again build...ie 200 turns + . Obviously, the Germans wont get any production from them. I believe if the R recapture the city, the long time of re-instatement of production...means the R wont get production out them either. ergo. Dead factories for the remainder of the game!

I expect that i could capture Moscow...at significant cost. I suspect that all the factories are already moved out by rail to Siberia/Urals prior to capture. I would likely hold Moscow for a maximum of 2 weeks prior to the R re-capturing it. Other factories captured throughout R total 9...
Leningrad(4), Kiev(1), Dnepropetrovsk(1),Stalino(1), Kharkov(1), Voronezh(1).
The altR does NOT differentiate which factories were captured.

I will be most interested in seeing the vote over next 5 days.

My NewZealand game partner advises me that in version 3.3, the 41-42 Blizzard shatter rule against the Germans remains in place. Does anyone know the exact equation of such? I believe they toned it down from version 3.2 .

Mike B

I have seen three winters of 3.3 of which games two are still being played but there is no doubt about the winner.

In my first game I lost Leningrad but not Moscow and I had a huge army for winter offensive, some 65000 squads lost and 10000 tanks lost. Germans had lost 12000 squads and 3000 tanks. Anyway, germans hadn't dug in and their army almost vanished during winter and I got almost to Kiev - Minsk - Pskov line. Game was over.

In the second game I lost Leningrad, Moscow and my army and for biggest mistake - my airforce. I couldn't break through german lines on Moscow front and destroying germans in south haven't helped very much as german player ignores hole region . Now it looks like I'm dead meat there.

Third game I managed to keep Leningrad, Moscow and everything - rest will be history.

So, take Moscow whatever it will cost and dig in! Hold lines near Moscow and in '42 go for Moscow again and Gorki. But dig in! Use your reserve divisions and armies to dig in. Keep your airforce alive and bombing those horders of soviets - it is the only way I know to win. Just dig in.

Vero.

I would try to cut off and take Moscow, even if this means the loss of a panzerkorps.
Probably, you will not be able to hold it but the destroyed factories are worth the risk.
In my 3.3 game, I took Moscow by mid Nov after heaviest fights with nearly all of my panzers and the biggest part of the Luftwaffe involved. I had to made the same decision like you in late Oct and I'm happy about my choice.

If you start to dig in now, you will not reach entrenchment levels of more than 3 or 4 until the blizzard starts, so you can still attack now and decide to retreat and dig in if the attack fails. Until the soviets have followed you, you also have your entrenchment level 3.
To reach higher levels, you must dug in earlier, so I would try to attack now

The south can be ignored

Brutus wrote:I would try to cut off and take Moscow, even if this means the loss of a panzerkorps.

Right. It's an even better decision than you are saying. The Vologda railway is already cut and 2 PzKorps are in position to intercept the Gorki railway. From what I see, this will completely isolate Moscow and at least 3 quarters of the remaining Soviet army will have to surrender. Guess what? Very small blizzard offensive after that

And to add something: Germans are able to attack during snow turns, only the blizzards will make their fights very very tough.

Vero.

I am the Soviet Side in those pretty pictures. From my previous experience, it seems to me that Germans have some hard work ahead if they want to take Moscow. Only one korps in inmediate contact, and Moscow with entrenchment 9, makes a direct approach rather dubious. Less heavily defended Leningrad was a hard nut to crack even when surrounded. In November, Russian strikes begin to be fairly coordinated, so it is probably that some German Korps can be pushed back soon. And, remember you are not seeing all my Armies. Some are hidden from German view. I saw the cut-off menace, and I have taken measures accordingly. We are expecting suicide PzKorps. This German "Bushido-code" attempt is not very historical, but we Bolsheviks are prepared to deal with it anyway. Perhaps Moscow will fall (50%/50%??), but if German loses the armour in the process, maybe final victory is not to be obtained in 1942. I would have entrenched before...and have the armour withdrawn.

All that said, the game seems now to be favourable for the German side in the medium term. Very heavy russian losses, and very few German tanks lost. Hopefully this can change, but at the moment I feel a bit outplayed.

It is possible to take Moscow with direct attacks, even opposing an entrenchment level of 9. I made it in only one turn with four strong attacking korps. For some reason, they attacked five times in one turn and conquered the city with the last assault. To be honest, I was very surprised, because I thought it would take at least three or four weeks to wear down the defenses. But it is possible.
The thing I don't know really is the rule about repeated attacks. I don't know, why my korps were attacking five times. Maybe, someone can explain this