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Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:19 am
by Knaust
I tried a little experiment. I simulated a PBEM game on my computer.
I placed a US carrier TF immediately South of Malaita and a Jap carrier TF North of it. Then I loaded the US file and I looked at the battle.
Battle Result observed in the Jap segment for Jap carries and in the US segment for US carriers:
Sys Flt Fires
Shokaku 51 24 44
Zuikaku 70 33 49
Shoho 0 0 0
Yorktown 18 45 37
Lexington 26 0 9
Then I loaded again the US file and observed the results of the new battle (thought they would be the same):
Sys Flt Fires
Shokaku 49 16 37
Zuikaku 1 0 0
Shoho 0 0 0
Yorktown 40 23 27
Lexington 0 0 0
They are completely different...so a tricky[:-] and patient[8|] Jap player could reenact the battle to get more favorable results...or am I missing something?
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:14 am
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Knaust
I tried a little experiment. I simulated a PBEM game on my computer.
I placed a US carrier TF immediately South of Malaita and a Jap carrier TF North of it. Then I loaded the US file and I looked at the battle.
Battle Result observed in the Jap segment for Jap carries and in the US segment for US carriers:
Sys Flt Fires
Shokaku 51 24 44
Zuikaku 70 33 49
Shoho 0 0 0
Yorktown 18 45 37
Lexington 26 0 9
Then I loaded again the US file and observed the results of the new battle (thought they would be the same):
Sys Flt Fires
Shokaku 49 16 37
Zuikaku 1 0 0
Shoho 0 0 0
Yorktown 40 23 27
Lexington 0 0 0
They are completely different...so a tricky[:-] and patient[8|] Jap player could reenact the battle to get more favorable results...or am I missing something?
The PBEM is almost 100% secure - do not worry!
What you see is that, sometimes (very rare) the "Combat Replay" is played differently for player #2 (i.e. Allied player).
But this does not mean that Japanese player can load/re-load to get different results since that's impossible - this bug was found and fixed long long ago!
Just remember that the true situation is always what Japanese player (i.e. player #1) sees after execution phase.
Therefore when we, experienced players, play PBEM the Japanese player sends 3 (three) files to his Allied opponent:
#1
Turn save
#2
"Combat Replay"
#3
Textual "Combat Report" file that comes handy in situations when the "Combat Replays" play differently and that way the player #2 (i.e. Allied player) can see the true result of execution phase.
Hope this helps...
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:56 pm
by foliveti
Is the text combat report different than the combat report that is available during the US player turn? That is, if I hit C during my turn as US player a combat report is displayed. It looks a lot nicer than the text file. Is this possibly different than the report shown on the text file. Also, if there are differences are they severe enought to worry about? A bit of a difference in combat reports between what the Allies receive and the Japanese receive would add a bit of fog of war that seems to be missing since both players see the same combat, or at least that is the way it is supposed to work.
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:11 pm
by Knaust
I wasn't explicit!
I say that I see different results from the true point of view....i.e. results for Jap carriers are seen in the TF screen as the Jap player, not in the Combat Report
and results for US carriers in the TF screen as the US player, not in the Combat Report
Anyway everyone can try this little experiment[;)], unless I miss something as I have already said.
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:00 pm
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: foliveti
Is the text combat report different than the combat report that is available during the US player turn? That is, if I hit C during my turn as US player a combat report is displayed. It looks a lot nicer than the text file. Is this possibly different than the report shown on the text file. Also, if there are differences are they severe enought to worry about? A bit of a difference in combat reports between what the Allies receive and the Japanese receive would add a bit of fog of war that seems to be missing since both players see the same combat, or at least that is the way it is supposed to work.
The end result is same for Japanese player (i.e. player #1) when combat animations are ON or OFF (i.e. all you get is textual file "Combat Report" instead of watching "Combat Replay" animations).
The Allied player (i.e. player #2) should get same result from watching "Combat Replay" but sometimes that differs and that's why it is good to send textual file "Combat Report" in PBEMs.
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:01 pm
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Knaust
I wasn't explicit!
I say that I see different results from the true point of view....i.e. results for Jap carriers are seen in the TF screen as the Jap player, not in the Combat Report
and results for US carriers in the TF screen as the US player, not in the Combat Report
Anyway everyone can try this little experiment[;)], unless I miss something as I have already said.
That bug was fixed long ago.
What version of UV are you running? Is it latest v2.30?
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:47 pm
by crsutton
I have recently seen the same thing in a long running campaign where I as the Japanese player accidently reran the old turn. The acutal on board results-that is; damaged ships and losses, was entirely different from the first time I ran the turn. I was unaware that this could happen but it did. Let me state that this is a long running campaign (over a year) and we have been through many patches. I have noticed that there are still bugs in these older games that do not appear in games that are started under version 2.30. Perhaps this is the case in this one. Anyway, it still can happen.
RE: Is PBEM really secure?
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:58 pm
by Knaust
my version is 2.30...this is what I see on the starting screen
moreover I stsrted games only with version 2.30...
anyway try it...scenario1...in 3-5 turns you get US carrier TF south of Malaita and jap carrier TF north of it...then you get battle...try it with the same US file more than once...
it seems all very strange also to me...so can anyone rcreate this battle?