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I asume that the aircraft spead is a factor in any of the air to air combat determanations. What I am woundering is wheather or not large multi plane type strikes like I see in many of the AAR reports factor in the speads of the various plane types and asigne them a colective spead based on the slowest type present, of if each combat resulation is based on each given type?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over. Please restate the question, as it isn't clear to me.

Say you have:

20x Ki-67
20xG4M2
20xP1Y1
20xKi-100
20x A6M5

all Intercepted by:

100x F6F

All of the Japanese Planes have different top and cruze speads, yet all in the example arive at the target at the same time, since I beelave spead is a variable in determing the outcome of air to air combat, I am asking if the slowest plane type in the formation (strike) determines the spead for all the other planes, or if it would make more since to sortie the faster planes like the Ki 67's seperatley....

A2A is done at the individual aircraft level. Speed is king.

Japan's only option against 3rd generation aircraft like the F4U is to saturate it with too many things to shoot down. It really is sad watching Japan fall apart in the later years. You feel pity for them.

I don't feel sorry for them, they wanted war and got what was coming to them. I sure the people of China and other Asian countries felt the same way[:'(]

Don't play with the Big Dog if you can't handle it's bite.

Id almost say that speed is the most important factor in combat

"A2A is done at the individual aircraft level"...CC Ty I was not shure but I thought I would ask.

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

Id almost say that speed is the most important factor in combat

I'd say pilot experience was and is the most important factor. In terms of equipment, given that no two plane types are exactly alike, it still comes down to how well the pilot is able to exploit his planes strengths vis-a-vis the enemy while hiding his weaknesses.

The Flying Tigers are an excellent example of this phenomenon, achieving incredible results against more modern (and numerous) aircraft in lumbering but durable and heavily armed planes.

At the end of the war, neither Japan nor Germany had a particular shortage of planes. They both lacked qualified pilots however.

"The Flying Tigers are an excellent example of this phenomenon, achieving incredible results against more modern (and numerous) aircraft in lumbering but durable and heavily armed planes. "

I was under the impreshion that the flying Tigers were killing Nate's primarly, hardely a more modern aircraft than a P40.

Nate:

Not to start the great plane debate but ...

Speed controls who is the aggressor and who is the target.

All the skill in the world will not keep a faster better turning plane off your butt.

Japan is on par if not better then most Allied first generation planes.

Japan is on par with some Allied second generation planes but due to skilled pilots not being replaced can not really exploit the situation.

Japan can not touch third generation planes at all. They fail in all catagories of firepower, manuever, and speed. It really is sad to watch the combat reports.

The P-40's flown by the Flying Tigers were more then a match for the stuff Japan had to throw at them like the Ki-27, Ki-43, Ki-45 and various bombers. Again one of the classic examples of speed kills. Look at the top end speeds of a P-40B compared to a Ki-27 (laughing very hard here) and you'll wonder why they only had the kills they had ...

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

[snip]
All the skill in the world will not keep a faster better turning plane off your butt.

[snip]

Can you say "boom and zoom"............

Can you say "boom and zoom"............

Yep, thats where Japan and Germany both were lacking ... Both the USA and the Brits strapped as many guns to the wings as could be put on. Definitely on the "BOOM" side of the fence. [:D]

In LA, they call it a "drive by shooting".....[:D]

Whoa. I thought we were merely talking about how the game models air-to-air combat, not re-opening the old "what's the most important element of air-to-air combat in the real world" sore.

I think that the designers are jiggling and juggling the pilot and aircraft characteristics in order to come up with what represents a generally palatable model of WWII air-to-air combat in the Pacific theater. Beyond that, I don't think you're going to get much.

BTW, Brady, "speed" is the measure of how fast something is moving. "Spead" is 17th-century British slang for semen.

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Can you say "boom and zoom"............

Yep, thats where Japan and Germany both were lacking ... Both the USA and the Brits strapped as many guns to the wings as could be put on. Definitely on the "BOOM" side of the fence. [:D]

Germans lacking in boom & zoom... hmm... don't think so...


Leo "Apollo11"

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


BTW, Brady, "speed" is the measure of how fast something is moving. "Spead" is 17th-century British slang for semen.

What do you know..., something learned every day. I thought the 17th century British
slang for semen was "cruze".

there were probably several

Witch would make "cruze spead" a very interesting concept to be woundering about.

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Can you say "boom and zoom"............

Yep, thats where Japan and Germany both were lacking ... Both the USA and the Brits strapped as many guns to the wings as could be put on. Definitely on the "BOOM" side of the fence. [:D]

Germans lacking in boom & zoom... hmm... don't think so...


Leo "Apollo11"

The had the Zoom but not the Boom! Problem with fuel (range) coupled with mixed cannons and machine guns. Some of the cannons were great, but the range/speed of the projectile was not really suited to fighter vs fighter encounters.

Against a bomber on the other hand, they were extremely effective and quite deadly because the speed was not as much an issue, generally the bombers flew in straight lines, not pulling multiple G's.

It is rather funny when you look at planes on both sides, separate the aircraft performance from the weapons performance.

General rule of thumb, the Allies mounted double the firepower (if not more) on a fighter as the Axis. In the end game, assuming everything else is equal, this will be the deciding factor.

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The had the Zoom but not the Boom! Problem with fuel (range) coupled with mixed cannons and machine guns. Some of the cannons were great, but the range/speed of the projectile was not really suited to fighter vs fighter encounters.

Against a bomber on the other hand, they were extremely effective and quite deadly because the speed was not as much an issue, generally the bombers flew in straight lines, not pulling multiple G's.

It is rather funny when you look at planes on both sides, separate the aircraft performance from the weapons performance.

General rule of thumb, the Allies mounted double the firepower (if not more) on a fighter as the Axis. In the end game, assuming everything else is equal, this will be the deciding factor.

I remember reading that Germans proffered centrally mounted weapons (like those on Me-109 where there would be 2x machine gun over engine + 1 gun that shoots through shaft) to wing mounted weapons.

The thinking was that the centerline weapons are much more accurate and effective than wing mounted one that have trouble with convergence...


Leo "Apollo11"