Page 1 of 2
About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:06 am
by BulletMagnet
Hey guys
I always thought this tank and others in the series had a short barrelled gun for use against infantry,hence infantry support tank.Howver i just was playing a long camp as germans in 39 and due to a deperate situation i had to start shooting at long ranges(15-25) hexes.To my surprise i hit roughly 50 percent of the time stationary and 25 percent moving while firing.Anyone else see this?
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:12 am
by Rune Iversen
ORIGINAL: BulletMagnet
Hey guys
I always thought this tank and others in the series had a short barrelled gun for use against infantry,hence infantry support tank.Howver i just was playing a long camp as germans in 39 and due to a deperate situation i had to start shooting at long ranges(15-25) hexes.To my surprise i hit roughly 50 percent of the time stationary and 25 percent moving while firing.Anyone else see this?
Which set of OOBs were you using?
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:13 am
by harlekwin
ORIGINAL: BulletMagnet
Hey guys
I always thought this tank and others in the series had a short barrelled gun for use against infantry,hence infantry support tank.Howver i just was playing a long camp as germans in 39 and due to a deperate situation i had to start shooting at long ranges(15-25) hexes.To my surprise i hit roughly 50 percent of the time stationary and 25 percent moving while firing.Anyone else see this?
Perhaps you could post its stats as a favor?
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:16 am
by BulletMagnet
Your favorite version 8.1.0.0.0.0.0.1
Im not sure how to post the stats for it?savvy.Do know that its aweful funny to be plinking with infantry tanks though.Kats are bad enough dont need early war tanks acting like em too.BTW im a KAT driver!!!and a goblin disciple.[:D]
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:22 am
by Rune Iversen
ORIGINAL: BulletMagnet
Your favorite version 8.1.0.0.0.0.0.1
Im not sure how to post the stats for it?savvy.Do know that its aweful funny to be plinking with infantry tanks though.Kats are bad enough dont need early war tanks acting like em too.BTW im a KAT driver!!!and a goblin disciple.[:D]
Post the stats for the maingun, Rangefinder, Firecontrol and Targeting.
Then we can give you some answers
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 am
by harlekwin
ORIGINAL: BulletMagnet
Your favorite version 8.1.0.0.0.0.0.1
Im not sure how to post the stats for it?savvy.Do know that its aweful funny to be plinking with infantry tanks though.Kats are bad enough dont need early war tanks acting like em too.BTW im a KAT driver!!!and a goblin disciple.[:D]
Don't worry we will post them and analyze what the ratings mean using the manual as a good tutorial and a comparison to later post-ww2 tanks as a base.
Thanks for the question.
regards,
sven
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:26 am
by Voriax
Why should an 'infantry tank' have less accurate gun than an 'anti tank' tank? 15 hexes isn't that long, 750 metres.
The weapon accuracy is actually less than for example German 37mm tank gun.
Voriax
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:29 am
by VikingNo2
The Pz-IVc/d has a 4/4 or a 4/5 I believe ands with early war armor being weak in general. I could see it being a real killer especially on anything British not named matilda. The sad fact is many gamers never use support tanks (other than Stugs ) so they don't know that they are pretty good tanks. The scott is a good example. Especially if the support tanks have heat rounds[;)]
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:30 am
by harlekwin
ORIGINAL: Voriax
Why should an 'infantry tank' have less accurate gun than an 'anti tank' tank? 15 hexes isn't that long, 750 metres.
The weapon accuracy is actually less than for example German 37mm tank gun.
Voriax
Vor I think he was merely a little bewildered at his effectiveness.
I am going to look into the ratings and translate the stats into real world examples.
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:53 am
by JJKettunen
Pz-IVc, 7.5cm KwK L/24
8.1.OOB:
FC 3
Targ 3
RgF 4
Max Range 160 (=40 hexes)
Accuracy 64
7.1 OOB
Others same, but Accuracy 40
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:00 am
by JJKettunen
Values of SPWW2 of the same AFV translated to SPWAW-values.
FC 2
Targ 0
RgF 2
MR 240
Acc 24
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:18 am
by rbrunsman
ORIGINAL: VikingNo2
The Pz-IVc/d has a 4/4 or a 4/5 I believe ands with early war armor being weak in general. I could see it being a real killer especially on anything British not named matilda. The sad fact is many gamers never use support tanks (other than Stugs ) so they don't know that they are pretty good tanks. The scott is a good example. Especially if the support tanks have heat rounds[;)]
I recommend them for their intended purpose. They are pretty cheap and really tear up the infantry if you can get close enough (~3 hexes).
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:21 am
by Rune Iversen
ORIGINAL: Keke
Pz-IVc, 7.5cm KwK L/24
8.1.OOB:
FC 3
Targ 3
RgF 4
Max Range 160 (=40 hexes)
Accuracy 64
7.1 OOB
Others same, but Accuracy 40
Hmm...
Let´s see
An accuracy of 64/4 equals an ACC rating of 16 (for the 8.1 unit). The equivalent value of the Us 75mm M3 AP is 10 (for 7.1). Is anybody going to believe that the stump of a gun carried by the Pz4C is more accurate than the 75mm M3 carried by the Sherman.
I wonder if they scaled up the M4a1 Sherman as well.
Keke?
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:56 am
by JJKettunen
ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen
I wonder if they scaled up the M4a1 Sherman as well.
Keke?
The answer is yes. From 40/3 to 68/3.
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:21 am
by Tombstone
Early in the war the PzIVc is a fine medium tank. Simple as that. The only reason you wouldn't realise that is if you never play or study early war stuff. At which point it doesn't matter, cause middle to late in the war a PzIVc is a pile of crap.
Tomo
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:04 am
by Belisarius
What Tombstone says.
Before '42, a IVc is about as good as you get. And yea, I would believe it's at least as good as a early Sherm. Optics.
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:57 pm
by harlekwin
ORIGINAL: Belisarius
What Tombstone says.
Before '42, a IVc is about as good as you get. And yea, I would believe it's at least as good as a early Sherm. Optics.
Heh.
You are aware of the differing ballistic envelopes of the main guns and the differences in turret traverse speed and mechanism?
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:59 pm
by Frank W.
ORIGINAL: Belisarius
What Tombstone says.
Before '42, a IVc is about as good as you get. And yea, I would believe it's at least as good as a early Sherm. Optics.
optics may be, but the gun has only a caliber length of 24 , say 75 / L24 this should not be that good to hit other tanks on med or long distance...also i don´t know if the germans had good heat rounds available in the early years...any info ?
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:03 pm
by BulletMagnet
Thats what i was implying.Its a 75/24 SHORT barrel. I have no problem with short ranges.Its the long range hit/kills that seem odd.Seems more accurate than pz-iii's 37mm gun./
RE: About pz IV-c's
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:05 pm
by harlekwin
ORIGINAL: BulletMagnet
Thats what i was implying.Its a 75/24 SHORT barrel. I have no problem with short ranges.Its the long range hit/kills that seem odd.Seems more accurate than pz-iii's 37mm gun./
well it had good optics....
[;)]
the differences in the ballistic envelope and MV of the rounds is pretty profound.
I will make a post translating the ratings later today.