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I had played with the idea of a possible scenario before, and I wouldn't be suprised if it was already suggested. But the old messages are deleted I shall just have to propose it (again). I am intrested in opinions about balance.

Scenario Orange Plan. What would have happened if the japanese did not attack Pearl Harbor, and the americans did not lose there battleships. This would have been the setting of the original battleplan of the americans.
I wondered about this alternate history when I was very young, and again when I read the manual a while back.

Play scenario '41, without historical move. This makes a suprice attack on pearl harbor not possible.
The Japanese officialy declare war and attack the next day. Sufficient to avoid any suprise attacks, insufficient to fully prepare for a defensive. Who had expected they would strike so soon. This leaves the battleship fleet in tact. But on the other hand there is no great outrage in america about this sneak attack warcrime, and with troubles in germany and half isolationistic policy the americans do not fully support the war. Instead of having the score 2x as much points as the americans, the americans sew for peace when the japanese have matched the score of the americans. And the kind japanese emperor is so friendly to say, up yours hitler, and accepts.

Though we love the CV's, but the american force now consist mostly of battleships, and you have to face the pre-war policy which means you have to find a way how to make your battleships 100% effective. The fleets are about equal, and the equal score means the americans must hurry to rally a counter attack, (as planned in Orange plan) before the japanese gobble up south east asia.

What I was wondering, is equal score to tough for the americans? Though not unrealist for a nation that doesn't want to fight a war, faced with an opponent of equal strength, I wonder what the balance results would be. At least japan has a good chance to win instead of fighting mostly to avoid defeat [;)].

Afcourse an other balance than 1x can be choicen. Actually makes a nice bidding war between a japanese and american player.
And on other option I once though of (if japan is a player), that the americans may not be attacked the first turn. But I let that idea slide because of added complexity and not really necassery. Attacking the next day would still leave an unprepared army on the philipinians etc.

I like that idea a lot, but I'm afraid that 1X Allied Victory points is too easy for the Japanese to achieve. The American battlefleet is still meat on the table for both Japanese LBA and CV's until at least summer 1942. (The things that are needed are upgraded flak armament on both the battlewagons themselves and supporting cruisers and destroyers, and American CV's with full complements of experienced Wildcats.) By that time the Japanese will have overrun the "Southern Resource Area", and piled up both kill points and control points.

I see two possibilities: first, that the game be played on "help Japanese" to simulate the lower popularity of the war in America. Second option, the Japanese must restrict themselves to attacking non-American targets in the first turn. (Malaysia and Dutch Indonesia.) This would cause the Americans to declare war first, so no American forces could be moved the first turn.

I was afraid an 1x would be a killer for the americans.
I like both suggestions and think there are very much do-able. However I took a look at the help function and it was a bit dissapointing. Though very usufull to compensate for a bad AI or rooky player, they clearly give japan abilities it clearly didn't have. And I am not in favor when a large divation is made from realistic abilities. (not much use of exploring an alternative history then)

However your post gave me additional new idea's/possibilities.

First of all I noticed that part of the lower victory conditions serves the idea that japan doesn't have to go in expansions size beyond what it really wanted. To be a major power yes. To completely submit and destroy all western powers including india, australia and hurting the american mainland was not its intention. They new very well that wasn't possible anyway.

But an american help + no pearl harbor combined with 1x might possible be more fair.

Or though not directly related to plan orange, lack of an american victory is a defeat of america, and a victory for japan. At least to the designer of the pearl harbor attack who knew from the beginning that japan didn't stand a chance, and always gambled on the ability of japan to sew for peace.

What would have really made the american public reluctant in the war was if they where never attacked and where forced to declare war on japan in the first place. This means that Japan is not allowed to attack america unless america declares war on japan.
The dutch and the australiants are indeed no america and. Both fall more under the protective shield of the english. Australia as ex-colony, an the dutch governed from an excile government in england.

Therefor the second suggestion seems very realistic if Japan is restricted to attacking the english,chinese, aussies or the dutch. And the american politicians would then declare war on Japan, to protect there intrests, possible there allies and enforce there oil embargo.
This mean that there is no first round attack of japan on american holdings, and the americans get one turn to move there troops, prepare for defense, or even make a first strike. This would I believe create the closest to what I meant with a Orange Plan scenario. ( I would recommend letting the americans control there troops. It even helps the americans making them more capable for the run of 1x)
Because this scenario is realstic, easily done rulewise, and hopefull do-able for the americans, this comes as close to my goal with this scenario as possible.

About 1x, that is steep indeed. Though not really unrealistic. However a 1.5x should be do-able for the americans.
And I like to repeat my suggestions for a bidding. One of the best ways of creating balance in a scenario, even between unequal skill of players. The player that makes the lowest big for the americans gets to play it.

ps. The superiority of CV's (superior and more) and LBA for the japanese focusses exactly on the on the problem of the americans. With the japanese ships having more torpedo's and the americans having slightly better AA. The Americans have still more Battleships and an american player will have to be skilled in using battleships efficiently will it be able to use that advantage. Something I suspect a lot of player admirals consider a secondary skill after the pearl harbor debacle.