Matrix Games Forums

So we're going to have melee combat? There's just one thing to say,..AYO GURKHALI!!!!!

troopie

------------------
Pamwe Chete

Hi, I will add "Heia Safari"

------------------
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

Banzai!

I've seen it. I love it!

WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

I have to stick with the tried and true, "Go gettem' Marines!"

------------------
USMCGrunt

-When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.

I can't help it!

My blood is up!

I gotta add one more...

"FIX BAYONETS!"

Buyah!

WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

"For England, Harry, and Saint George!!!!"
"Give em Hell!!!"
"Damn the Potatos, full speed ahead"
"Fredricksburg! Fredricksburg!"
"give em the cold steel boys"
"honest Charlie Brown I won't let go"

------------------
I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

"Sprung auf, Marsch Marsch!"
"Hurra!"

May the cold steel of your baynets perice their cold black Hearts my boys!

------------------
Doom

FOOOORZA E ONOOOORE !!!! ALL'ARMI !!

Ha ha!
Melee combat would be great and much more realistic than the usual close combat shooting!

Hurraah!

Gentlemen.
Stalingrad will never be the same again! Could this game get any better. Hopefully, but could anybody have dreamt about how it is now a couple of years ago. Not me and Im loving every minute of gaming.
Salute to you Matrix men!

Regards

molset
"Jakki er ekki frakki nema sidur se"

Mele will certainly be an outstanding addition to the game....especially for urban fighting and for the US Marines vs Japan scenerios.

Melee/overun attacks sound great, and definitely will be a better feature for spwaw. Since there are not enough information right now, my question is: Will there be a change in the surrendering algorithm? Will a disrupt unit pulls back from the hex or will they just surrender like right now? Maybe the relative strength of the units will play into the equation such as a full squad will less likely to surrender to a recon section, etc.

We are still working on the details, what they end up being will be documented in general in the manual. The basic design philosophy behind the rule is based in miniatures - if occupying a hex with an enemy unit the attacker takes a "gut check" to initiate melee/overrun. If that fails the defender gets a "free opfire" at it and it gets suppresed. Unfortunately things can't be driven out of a hex, (The reason is arcane, but the cure is worse than the disease, so they can't) so the attacker cowers back to his "corner" of the hex. If really unlucky/depleted it can surrender.

IF it passes the gut check, the defender takes one - if it fails the attacker gets a free melee whack at it and the defender responds with survors and at 2/3 strength. IF the defender is pasted too bad, it can surrender.

IF both pass, then hand-to hand combat ensues. Each man has an attack factor computed (nominally between 10 and 40% based on a host of factors) each man is diced for and the successes cause enemy casualties. Both are applied at teh end of the round. Overrun is similar, but the vehicle has an attack factor and instead of attacking back, the victems attempt to evade.

There are some other things we are looking at, but its difficult to do anything other than individual squads against individual squads the way the game is set up, so multiple squads melee the survivors of the first squads attack. In general 3 melees is assumed the average to prove conclusive (defined as surrender or elimination of all one sides troops) though it happen immediately or take as many as 5 (very rarely more). That is either turns of the units occupying the hex (ie 5-10 minutes of fightin time 1-1) or a 3-1 advantage in a single turn (3 enemy squads occupying the hex with the defender and all meleeing sequentially.

Its not perfect, but seems to work pretty darn well so far! If you want to stornm entrenched of fortified units rather than take pot shats tem all day, its one way to do it, but you better have a numerical advatage in squads or a really big morale/experience advantage!

[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited March 01, 2001).]

I think the melee concept that you have proposed is very logical given the constraints of the program engine. Based upon historical facts, the soviet infantry was far superior to the germans in "close combat" tactics and, therefore that must be factored into the equation. In other words, a given german infantry unit may be far superior to a soviet infantry unit in "normal" combat, but the same soviet infantry unit will likely be far superior in "close combat".

As a general question, how will melee differ from assault?

The national characteristic differences are one of teh things still in works. Assault only works against vehicle targets, melee is "assault" vs other infantry. Its most useful to root infantry out of entrenchments and stone buldings and the like, where you would have to shoot several units, turn after turn to get them to retreat, or in close terrain against an enemy with superior firepower and you don't relish duking it out at 1 or 2 hex range w/rifles vs SMGs or the like.



[This message has been edited by Paul Vebber (edited March 01, 2001).]

And the third concept is the overrun, which i assume is vehicles (tanks) taking the initiative over infantry.

To the battle cries above must be added the one that surprised a Brit unit attacked by cannibals:

"Meat! Meat!"

Well there's always my unit/branches battle cry........

.......You want me to go WHERE!?!?!
Send the walking statistics, thats what they're trained for

------------------
Militas Succurimus

Paul:

This will work especially well with pacific scenarios using Japanese banzai charges!

Well done!

Bruce
Semper Fi

------------------
"The most important element in war is man. And there are no tougher men than my China Marines." Major Gen. Archer 'Archy' Vandegrift, 1st Marine Division