Matrix Games Forums

I was wondering if the designers and testers of witp would appreciate some extra detailed statistics on the japanese wartime economy. I have seen no references made to my primary sources - the us strategic bombing survey(ussbs) japan division. I apologise if this information has already been referred to in other posts.

The best reference I have found to the japanese economy is in the volume Effects of strategic bombing on japan's wartime economy. This contains over 150 pages of tables and data on every conceivable item of material important to the war effort. I have copies of many other japan division reports as well incl oil industry and aircraft industry.

I will give just one small example - information on steel merchant ships -
As at Pearl Harbor total fleet 6 million grt - 1609 vessels over 500 grt of which 2.1 million grt taken by army and 1.6 million grt taken by navy
Merchant ship production in war (steel vessels over 500t) -2.3 million grt cargo(932 ships) - 0.9 million grt tanker(294 ships). Captured or salvaged 0.75 million grt.
Is this information useful as regards to levels of ship replacements in the game ?

This level of detail is available for every type of raw material and finished product useful to the war effort. I can provide the information if requested on any particular areas of interest.

My hope is that the economic model in the game is tested as carefully as the miltary ops. Running the game with no warfare except china would show if the levels of raw materials fall as they should. Oil is not the only crucial item. For instance bauxite for aluminum was predicted to run out by mid late 1942 with no new sources of supply ie no more planes.

I fully admit my knowledge on the economic model in witp is very limited - my note is meant to help not to criticise any aspects of the game development.

Andrew

I will give just one small example - information on steel merchant ships -
As at Pearl Harbor total fleet 6 million grt - 1609 vessels over 500 grt of which 2.1 million grt taken by army and 1.6 million grt taken by navy
Merchant ship production in war (steel vessels over 500t) -2.3 million grt cargo(932 ships) - 0.9 million grt tanker(294 ships). Captured or salvaged 0.75 million grt.
Is this information useful as regards to levels of ship replacements in the game ?

Is this in book form or "Hopefully PDF Format" I have been looking for this section online for a long time and have never been able to track it down, It would prove useful as a additional source for a few items in question. I have located several parts of the survey but would love to get my hands on the whole thing.

A chart from Parillo's Book:



He makes several referances to the ussbs, and other sources in his book.


p. 162:

"despite many short commings, the japanese shipbuilding industry in ww2 fared somewhat better than anyone could of expected. Indead eeven the Japanese did not anticapate the heroic wartime efforts of the shipyards. Five weeks before Pearl Harbor, the Cabinet Planning Board estimated that anual construction of 600,000 tons was manadatory to maintain minimum shipping levals. The following week this agency calucated that Japan could launch 500,000 tons of steel merchantmen in 1942, 700,000 tons in 43, and 900,000 in 44, so that the nations maritime transport would comfortably surfice for wartime needs. Other pre and early way studdies, including one undertaken by American businessmen, reached similar conclushions about Japans shipbuilding capacity. Japanese yards actualy launched 393,118 tons in 42, which fit into the lower range of pre war esitmates. But production skyrocketed to1,097,103 tons in 1943 and 1,603,430 tons in 1944, with 1941 as the base year, the shipbuilding index reached 674.8 in the third year of the war, dwarfing even the most optomistic predictions."

The information comes from the original usbs 1946 book. Alas apart from the summary reports I have never found much of the original information on the internet. You can find some original volumes for sale on internet bookshops - many of my copies are signed by the original authors who are now sadly deceased.

I wish I could offer scans of my own book but it would require destroying the binding to scan it. If you require any particular information on any particular commodity or finished product I would be happy to provide the information.

I have found the ussbs to be more detailed than eg the parillo book for instance it lists shipbuilding by no of ships/grt per month for cargo and tanker vessels also wooden vessels.

By the way I have noticed a poor original copy of the Effect of strategic bombing on japan's war economy on sale via abebooks if anyone is interested.

Andrew

" have found the ussbs to be more detailed than eg the parillo book for instance it lists shipbuilding by no of ships/grt per month for cargo and tanker vessels also wooden vessels. "

I do whish their was a bit more detail in parillos book, though the leval of understanding overall conveyed by it regarding this subject matter is extrodanry, he also covers the Wodden hulled fleat in some detail, but again more specific detail on the ships would be great.

Somthing I would very much like to know is Just how many of each type of the standardised Merchants were built during the war?

"The standard designs included five freighter types (A,B,C,D, and E) ranging from 530 to 6,400 tons, three tankers (TS,TM and TL) of from 1,000 to 10,000 tons, and a 5,400-ton ore carrier (Type K). All nine varities crused at 10 Knots or more (the TL could steam efficiently at over 16 Knots0 and had maximum speads of about 3 knots higher. A transport (Type M) and a railroad car fery (W)"

Above from Parriols book.

I know since he mentions this in his book that 400 of the smaller tankers were built, and that 121 of the 6,000 ton Merchants were but what of the rest?

The ussbs does not give a breakdown by types other than the split between cargo/tanker and steel/wooden.

The best book I have read on the japanese standard merchant ships is Ugly Ducklings by Heal pub Naval Inst Press. The main focus is on the Type A standard merchant but it also has some details incl nos built for the other standard types. Partial list :
Type 1A -3
Type 2A - 131 6600 grt merchant
Type 3A - 6
Type 1B - 16
Type 3B -3
Type 2ET - 135 870 grt small tanker you refer to ex cargo ship
Type 1TL - 23 9977 grt tanker
Type 2TL - 33 9951 grt tanker
Type 3TL - 5 9961 grt tanker
Type 1TM - 26 6400 grt tanker
Type 2TM - 43 2850 grt tanker
Type 1TS - 5 1020 grt tanker
Type 2AT - 34 6700 grt tanker ex cargo
Type 3AT - 2 7244 grt tanker ex cargo

Note the number of tankers converted from cargo ships - in 1945 many converted back to cargo when the dutch east indies oilfields were cutoff from japan.

All the above info from Heal book - recently published by NIP - well written book by noted maritime expert. The information listed is again much more detailed than the Parillo book.

Interesting list, and TY for posting it...I wounder why Parillo refered to the 870 ton Tankers as being built in numbers as heigh as 400, or is that listed elsewhear?

Looks like a good Book.

According to Heal the production of Type 2E 873 grt general cargo vessels was 457 vessels. He lists the Type 2ET tanker ex cargo 873 grt as 135 built. These 2 vessels have identical dimensions. I suspect parillo just listed the total production of Type E standard vessels without noting the split of cargo to tanker.

TY for clearing that up. Still thats a lot of ships, I will have to order that book....