Matrix Games Forums

I know many of you will look at this thread and start crying pirate, but thats not what I'm after. I am mostly wondering if we will need to have the disc in the drive to play WitP and if so, will it be able to be copied so I can play with a duplicate and keep the original nice and safe.

Many of you may not have any problems with damaging CDs in your computer drive, but I have lost several CDs that I play a lot to this and with WitP it will be no difference. Or perhaps if we could send back the damaged CD for a new one for a cheap price (like $5) or something like that it would workout as well. Can anyone answer this for me ?

Xargun

Well I can't give you an answer with regards to WiTP obviously, but I can tell you from recent experience with other games that they will occasionally include a "no cd" aspect in some update to the game when they're convinced it's time to move on to a sequel.

Seeing as that's unlikely in this particular case short of them modeling some other part of the world, I don't see why they couldn't do that for us. I would like to be able to play off a dupe I make and put the original in a safe deposit box honestly... [:D]

As they have mentioned digital download, and as it would be wise to burn it to a cd too, that makes me think it won't have a cd required requirement.

But, anyone that hasn't been under a rock, knows you can find software that can copy anything.

I have never felt any guilt making spare expendable copies of my own game to use of course.

I expect no trouble in any event.

I just hope I can raise the funds without to great a delay

Has the pricing been mentioned anywhere recently?
Will retail box be different than download?

I am not asking for firm quotes.

Okay, maybe not THAT extreme, but you get the idea... I want to keep the bugger safe!!

True I have software that will COPY anything I own. But a copy doesn't always work when they want the CD in the drive. Its a 50 / 50 chance in my experience. But the ability to play without the CD would work best and satisfy everyone I think. Then I can put the original away nice and safe under my pillow... [:D]

One thing I don't want to see is no CD required for digital download, yet those of us who buy the actual CD need it to play. That would make me very upset.

Xargun

Personally, I don't buy the damaged cd thing. I have had computers since before hard disks were invented and I have never lost any software to damage. If you care about it, you'll take care of it. If not, you pay for a replacement.

I'm sure you'll find zero help if you walk into Blockbuster and say your DVD is scratched. They'll be more then happy to sell you a new one and thats about it. Why should software be *any* different then movies/music. You get it, it works. You trash it too bad/so sad but no one really cares.

Copy protection is mandatory these days, not an option. I will lay money that someone here will be posting the software on a service like eMule within the first week of it being released. It is a sad world full of evil people that we live in these days. Don't pretend otherwise.

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Personally, I don't buy the damaged cd thing. I have had computers since before hard disks were invented and I have never lost any software to damage. If you care about it, you'll take care of it. If not, you pay for a replacement.

I'm sure you'll find zero help if you walk into Blockbuster and say your DVD is scratched. They'll be more then happy to sell you a new one and thats about it. Why should software be *any* different then movies/music. You get it, it works. You trash it too bad/so sad but no one really cares.

Copy protection is mandatory these days, not an option. I will lay money that someone here will be posting the software on a service like eMule within the first week of it being released. It is a sad world full of evil people that we live in these days. Don't pretend otherwise.

There are several ways to secure software from piracy without requiring the original CD to be the drive to play the game. In fact this kind of piracy prevention is kind of primative as every CD copy protection scheme ever created has shortly had a hack posted on some "crack" site within a few weeks anyway.

Systems similar to the one Microsoft uses are growing in popularity, where you register your copy with a machine fingerprint stored at the vendor's site before you can even run the game (or run after a short period of time) and the vendor returns a 128 bit DES encrypted liscense file that you must have on your disk in order to run the stuff. From that point on, the game runs ONLY on that computer and nowhere else. You can re-install over and over again on the same machine, but want to run on another machine? Buy another copy or deregister your copy with the vendor and reregister on another fingerprint. Very tough to crack that kind of piracy protection but it lets one keep their CD original in a safe place. You can beat that system, but it is such a pain that its not worth it for a $50-60 game....

Only effective method I have *ever* seen was a hardware key. Everything else can be bypassed quite quickly. The lastest batch of cd inprinting seems to be fairly effective in that it costs a fair chunk of coin to have the hardware to get past it to decode and bypass the protection but is adds seriously to the cost of production.

As I said, I hope they embed peoples information into the game so when it shows up in a week, they can sue and recover a couple hundred grand that way.

edit: I tried to delete. Your message showed that they do have a system for those who wish to upgrade. Never mind...

My dad had a game CD shatter in the drive. Albeit it was the only game he ever played (Hoyle), it died within a year without his treating it incorrectly. It was most likely a flawed disk. In his case, I just bought him another $10 copy and that one has survived. Nevertheless, the customer shouldn't have to defend against charges of piracy to simply protect his/her investment.

I don't have a big problem with copy protection as long as it stays transparent. However, when it rejects certain cd-rom drives, etc. then it is defeating its purpose. With a game like WitP, matrix should/will know that I bought it from them, so I shouldn't think making a back up would be a big deal. Gamers who are into these types of games are usually quite willing to pay to keep the hobby alive. I would imagine that the paying customers aren't the danger here.

However, when it rejects certain cd-rom drives, etc. then it is defeating its purpose

Not to argue the point, but the only drives that have problems with copy protection are the ones you pick up at a second hand shop for $2. No drive made in the last 5 years has this problem.

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

However, when it rejects certain cd-rom drives, etc. then it is defeating its purpose

Not to argue the point, but the only drives that have problems with copy protection are the ones you pick up at a second hand shop for $2. No drive made in the last 5 years has this problem.

I believe a lot fo people had trouble with the UV disk after the 2.30 patch. The solution many people posted was to use it in another drive. I think some of the DVD-rom drives (which also can play CDs, of course) were not able to read it.

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Personally, I don't buy the damaged cd thing. I have had computers since before hard disks were invented and I have never lost any software to damage. If you care about it, you'll take care of it. If not, you pay for a replacement.

I'm sure you'll find zero help if you walk into Blockbuster and say your DVD is scratched. They'll be more then happy to sell you a new one and thats about it. Why should software be *any* different then movies/music. You get it, it works. You trash it too bad/so sad but no one really cares.

Copy protection is mandatory these days, not an option. I will lay money that someone here will be posting the software on a service like eMule within the first week of it being released. It is a sad world full of evil people that we live in these days. Don't pretend otherwise.

I've never heard of a CD getting zapped in a drive before and I have a recording studio and use zillions of them. Now being a klutz and dropping it is another thing.[:D] The dud CD's can get dropped, stomped on and dragged across the floor and work fine. The good ones you drop from 8 inches off the floor and somehow they get a nick in them that makes them useless..
I have no problem with a CD being in the drive for copy protection. I have a feeling this game exploded way beyond the original intentions of time and effort. These guys have worked so hard on this they deserve every penny they get.

Bob

I have two young kids and while I am at work these things can happen. Especially if I forget and leave the disk in the CD drive. I come home and find it on the floor will jelly finger prints all over it.[:(]

I have two young kids and while I am at work these things can happen. Especially if I forget and leave the disk in the CD drive. I come home and find it on the floor will jelly finger prints all over it.

I guess the morale of the story is put the cd away *above* the height of your kids when not in front of your computer. I could say the very same thing about leaving kitchen knives on your computer desk for the kids to play with. You wouldn't do that so why do the other. [:D]

Again, these fall into the catagory of user neglect, hardly Matrix's fault and certainly not a warranty issue.

I believe a lot fo people had trouble with the UV disk after the 2.30 patch. The solution many people posted was to use it in another drive. I think some of the DVD-rom drives (which also can play CDs, of course) were not able to read it.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You happen to have one of those substandard CD drives that has problems reading the digital fingerprint off the disk. You will also have problems with a lot of other copy protected games as well.

It is really not Matrix's fault that your CD does not follow orange book standards. Complain to the guy who sold it to you or replace it with a $50 one that does follow standards. No DVD drives have this problem, it is only an issue with super cheap OEM CD drives. Technically, your CD is broken. Matrix can not support people with broken CD drives as the requirement for a functional CD drive is clearly spelled out in the software requirements.

Copy protection is Frag's animated combat. You make an illegal copy and a cat and mouse show up to pummel you.

Copy protection is Frag's animated combat. You make an illegal copy and a cat and mouse show up to pummel you.

Wouldn't that be nice? Too bad they can't simply destroy your computer like some of my old routines where I played a song with your hard disk heads seeking them against the track 0 stop until it finally snapped off [:D]

Did I mention that I find pirates to be the lowest order of scum of the earth? People who steal should be treated by the old school rules ... chop their hand off! [:-]

There *is* no excuse that makes it acceptable. All this crap about *rights* is exactly that ... *crap*. You have one *right* and only one. Keep your money in your pocket when in the store and say "no". Should you not exercise that "right", you have no others.

And from the soapbox that was Mr. Frag. Next in the speaking order is Metallica discussing "The Evils of Downloading Music". [:-]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Personally, I don't buy the damaged cd thing. I have had computers since before hard disks were invented and I have never lost any software to damage. If you care about it, you'll take care of it. If not, you pay for a replacement.

on a lighthearded note. My old 1980's era 5.25 inch floppies for my Atari 400/800 ddid not start going bad until 2003, and even then the majority of them still functioned correctly.

I've never had a CD go bad or "wear out" yet.