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I've been trying tank overruns on Russian Infantry. I've noticed that if I have a good overrun I suppress but do not kill the squad - OK so far. Then I bring up another AFV and shoot at the infantry. This seems to regularly get a "Infantry Panics" message. But nothing obvious happens. The manual says the squad should run, but because they share a hex with an enemy tank they can't run. I think this should then cause the infantry to surrender - but they never do.

What's up here? Anyone run into this yet?

Tommy

[ May 15, 2001: Message edited by: Tommy ]

[ May 21, 2001: Message edited by: Tommy ]

OK, I can't be the only one who's confused about this!!

Tommy

I usually play the soviets against computer
and make the computer germans.

In just the last game I played I remember an SS
squad that had taken a tremendous amount of fire finally surrendered when a T-34/85 or was it an IS-1,dont remember,was firing at them from the same hex.
As I said though,a very large amount of equipment had fired at them before the tank attacked from the same hex.

TEST

Testing

Originally posted by Tommy:
OK, I can't be the only one who's confused about this!!

Tommy

Do you only have problems with russians? The manual says that russians have the ability to ignore supprussion occasionally. Could that be it?

Test

The tank panic causes a big suppression hit, they usually becaome retreated and run away at the end of the turn, not right when they panic. Sbsequent fire can casue them to loase that status. For teh most part people shoot to much at units...supresthem and make them run and then surround them melee or force them to surrender in pockets is much more effiient!

Well, it sounds like I just need more experiences with this to get the real idea. The 4 or 5 Russian squads never ran.

How about the "crew panics!" message? I'm getting a lot of those, but it's never apparent which crew the program is talking about. I often get it when no obvious crew is involved in the shooting - say an AFV shooting an Inf squad. I don't know how to use that info.

Tommy

[ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Tommy ]

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
For teh most part people shoot to much at units...supresthem and make them run and then surround them melee or force them to surrender in pockets is much more effiient!

Yeah, definitely worth trying and from my experience this also works in most circumstances. Problem is, most people are too much used to shoot everything in sight into pieces, instead of applying real tactics.
With V5.0 and above, it´s worth changing own style of play a little bit to honor these improvements!

___________
Harry

Nice idea with pockets, yeah - I done it since my first strategy game I remember even Battle Island I were one would get a bonus if the attacked unit was attacked prior from another direction !
But still I get only like 2-3% surrenders - no matter how often they get shoot up or how close my units are - even if they are in the same hex !
I think the 'surrender' check should be done at the ned of a players turn ! So units that have high suppression for the second or third turn and are very close to enemy units should surrender - right now they only do it when they loose a soldier to fire.

murx

Paul,

Thanks for the Tip. I've been playing a generated campaign, Germans(me) vs. French. Essentailly I'm Mech SS and bunch of armor vs. the entire French population as infantry. I'm spending way too much time trying to get squads down to 3-4 guys, and have them disperse. I'll try encirclement to force them to surrender..

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
The tank panic causes a big suppression hit, they usually becaome retreated and run away at the end of the turn, not right when they panic. Sbsequent fire can casue them to loase that status. For teh most part people shoot to much at units...supresthem and make them run and then surround them melee or force them to surrender in pockets is much more effiient!

How does that work? Must you surround the unit in adjacent hexes? Or does the game engine recognize when a unit cannot trace a line of hexes in their possesion to an HQ?

When a unit has only hexes adjacent to the enemy to retreat into, there is a chance they will surender, provided the enemy units have shots remaining. If the enemy unit has no shots sometimes it will pile in with them. Melee and overrun combat are now the best way to get units to surrender - if you pas your "gut check" and they don't it happens alot

[ May 23, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]