Matrix Games Forums

I do not have the patience for the editor but thought I would throw out some ideas for those who do:

1. Nightmare in the Pacific: Starts 1/1/43. Midway did not happen. The Japanese have taken PM and Northern Australia and well as most of China and parts of India. Can the US fight back in spite of these Japanese successes? (Similar to the UV scenario where the Japanese have taken PM)

2. Operation Olympic/Downfall: The atomic bombs and the Russians entering the war did not get Japan to surrender. Starting in 8/45 to the end of the game. Can the Allies pull off an inavsion of the Home Islands?

how about plan orange 1930 naval war in the pacific.
or a campaign were the carrier is not developed to the extent thet were and the battleship reigns supreme.
finally no russian activation, germany wins the war in the east.

Plan Orange is being done by Tankerace. I think it will be on Spookys site when it is done.

a campaign were the carrier is not developed to the extent thet were and the battleship reigns supreme

If you do that, give them blimps (A/C with enormous range and lousy durability).

Airships of the Pacific!

ORIGINAL: trojan

how about plan orange 1930 naval war in the pacific.
or a campaign were the carrier is not developed to the extent thet were and the battleship reigns supreme.

Well, while my mod is a 1920's feel, it should give you just that. Each side gets only a handful of carriers, and these are used mainly for scouting purposes. Naval aviation is an important factor, but will no longer be decisive. Air dropped torpedoes are inaccurate, and weak, also prone to failing. However, one hit can cripple a ship.

My mod will center around a 1920's Pacific War, but useing WWI style combat. Commerce raiding, and grand fleet battles will be the order of the day. If you search for "War Plan Orange" on the forums, you'll see more info, including some graphic previews.

Tanker

what are you doing about land units for your War plan organe mod ?
ie do you have any good refernce for land unit dispositions , orders of battle etc for 1922 etc ?
ta
Paul

1. A plain fact is that starting a war with an industrial plant that can produce a ship a day and several times more armarments than the rest of the world combined, was a very stupid move on the part of the Axis. However, if u did that it would be a good idea to shut down the Panama Canal with say a couple maru's with explosives and troops below decks enter the canal on the night of Dec. 6/7, 1841. Simply scuttling the ships in the canal would colse it temporarily, but troops blowing locks, etc. could do some serious (as in it would be quicker and easier to just dig a new canal) & creative damage. The Panama Canal should be included on the map with some ways to put it out of service and subsequent U.S. delays of 2 weeks minimum (vessels over 30 knots) to a month just to reach the west coast of Panama. About 2/3's of U.S. ship production was East or South coast, with about the same proportion of drydock equipped shipyards, so damaged vessels should take a month each way, until a working canal is reestablished. Obviously, there should be a way to launch carrier air strikes at the cnanl as well, and a way to invade Panama amphibiously.

2. If I can get the editor to save, I will try to create a scenario in which Japan declares war against Great Britain, and Holland (including Canada and Austrailia, but leaves the U.S. out of the war, i.e., ignores the U.S. and the Phillipines. Looking at the Japanese situation in 1941, they need a source of oil, (Dutch East Indies), and should do something to "help out their European partners." Japan correctly concluded attacking Siberia would not be a good idea for Japan but would help out Germany most directly, and the Japanese Army is quite busy in China: the addition of the Dutch, and the British Commonwealth would be a more than sufficient increase in the list of Japan's foes to keep them occupied for some time, & with some prospect of success. President Roosevelt would probably have had a hard time convincing 'isolationist' Americans o go to war to protect British and Dutch colonies, but I hope their is some way to trigger U.S. involvement, without forcing it with a set date, and without a Japanese or Axis attack.

I would love to see some discussion on the above.
capjack

Does not sound like much of a game to me. With all of the forces available to Japan and KB now free, it woudl be what a three week game maybe 4? If you went out to 6 onths you could include the Conquest of Austraila and India. there is jsut nothign there to slow down the JP.

As for a trigger on US I woudl say if the Japanese invade anything east of Wake. Also all US ships in DEI woudl need to e either transfered to Commonwealth or Dutch control or sent out of area. ANy Attack on US Shipping shoudl trigger US entrance.

The US shoudl still be available but, all of the support and such shoudl be sent to the US bases in SOPAC and CENPAC to e-enforce and build up. After 1942 Japan woudl be suicidal to attack anything east of WAKE. US gets all normal ship and LCU arrivals just not used.

Cap Jack, why would you do your number 2? The Japanese wanted British territory, but their main aim was always the United States, ever since 1918.

I would like a short scenario with the invasion and the building of the bases that would put the bombers in range of Japan Homeland.

Basically, an Iwo Jima or Okinawa type scenario?

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Basically, an Iwo Jima or Okinawa type scenario?

Yep... The invasion, the building and the bombing! (including THE bomb).

Actually that wouldn't be too bad, really. Plus you could tie it in with an Operation Olympic type scenario.

One idea for a scenario I´m playing around with is a bit involved:

Hitler and Stalin and all of their closest advisors/associates except Berija and Speer have a secret meeting in Poland in July 1940. They are all killed by a bomb laid by the Polish underground.
Berija, as the surviving strongman, runs amok with purges. In contrast, in Germany, those in power are rather more rational and pragmatic than Hitler´s boys. Maybe adopt Goering as a figurehead. They do nothing much about Britain (no Battle of Britain!) or the Mediterranean - Mussolini has been talked out of entering the war -, but attack the Soviet Union in March 1941 (they want to pre-empt Berija attacking them). The Soviet Union collapses with rather less resistance than historically, because for most Russians the Germans are a lesser threat than Berija and his secret police. The Russian Campaign ends in an armistice that splits off the Baltic states, Belorussia, and the Ukraine as independent states under German influence. The Germans get to occupy the Caucasus region with its oil and have unlimited right of transfer through the territory of the Soviet Union. The Soviet armed forces are limited in size (this is monitored) and the Soviet Union has to deliver raw materials, foodstuffs, machinery, and weapons to Germany and its Allies.
Now for the Pacific relevance:
Japan has, concurrently with the German attack in the west, started a limited offensive against Mongolia and Siberia that prevented the Soviets from transferring any Siberian troops to the west. As their part of the spoils, they get much of the Soviet Far East from Komsomolsk down to Vladivostok, all the Soviet Far East Fleet, and the same kind of reparation deliveries as the Germans. Thus, more oil, steel, coal, and food for Japan, so Japan could get by without the resources of the British and Dutch colonies. Japan´s LCU´s also are upgraded with Soviet Artillery, AA guns and tanks. The air force may get stuff like the IL-2m3 and the La-7, but they will certainly get a number of German types like the FW190, the Ju88 or the He219. Some German army units may be transferred to the Pacific (the "Pazifkkorps"), also some Luftwaffe Geschwader. The Kriegsmarine should make an appearance only with a number of U-Boats (transferred via the Indian Ocean) and small ships (S-Boats and MFP barges, transferred via the Transsib Railway and reassembled in the Komsomolsk shipyard).

The war this time starts on December 6, 1942. Germany has attacked the British position in the Mediterranean in May, 1942, so we still get the influence of the Med situation.

This one should be harder for the Allies.

I believe the second scenario that you discribed was a viable strategy for the Japanese. It was likely that they could have defeated the British, Dutch, and Australians (BDA) fairly quickly and put themselves in a tactically good position against the Americans. War with the US would probably been triggered by an intediction of an American reinforcement convoy. The Japanese would have been forced to declare a blockade against military convoys from the US to its Allies or the Phillipines. This blockade would have triggered the American-Japanese conflict. Roosevelt would have certainly sent a convoy to the Philippines to trigger the war. Possibly the Japanese would have declared an ultimatum to the US: declare the Philippines a de-militerized zone and remove its armed forces or face war with the Japanese Empire. In the few weeks it would have taken to get a sacrifical convoy together, the Japanese could have defeated the BDA forces and prepared for an invasion of the Philippines. Of course this would have triggered War Plan Orange (or Rainbow or something) from the Americans.

I'd enjoy smaller, more limited scenarios than the game currently mostly offers, since my time is unfortunately too limited to go for a full scale WITP campaign.

For example, a variant of the Kamchatka scenario, with more Japanese air forces, would be interesting. Having some air force to play with as Japanese player would make the fighting more interesting.

A China scenario would be interesting.

As somebody mentioned, a scenario or even a campaign that is limited into the neighbourhood of Japan 1944-1945 would offer interesting gameplay.

In the book "And I Was There" by Rear Admiral Edwin T. Layton (Admiral Nimitz's intelligence officer during the war), pages 131 thru 137, he points out the fact that Roosevelt may have violated the constitution by meeting with Churchill before the war in their first face to face meeting in Halifax, Nova Scotia and making a defacto alliance with the British in the Pacific.

If you look at a lot of the American war plans prior to Pearl Harbor and after the Roosevelt/Churchill meeting in Halifax where they announced the Atlantic Charter, you'll notice it mentions any Japanese movements to the south, not necessarily against US bases only. It was very likely that had Japanese tried to attack just British or Dutch bases the US would still have entered - or tried to - the Pacific war. Whether congress would have declared war if Roosevelt asked them in such a case or impeached him is the question.

BUMP!!!

Id like to add a few suggestions to this list.

These are just my opinions, so dont flame me if you dont like the suggestions![:'(]

Possible a world war one scenario? Mainly involving japan and german and the anzacs taking SNG (and maybe also china with that 21 steps thing)

And the russo-japan war of 1904-5, id love to see an scenario like this! [:D]

Also im looking forward to playing war plan orange! Is it still being made?

Yes, Plan Orange is still being made. I am working on the nitty gritty of it, but its coming along nicely.

As to the Russo-Japanese war, I considered doing an addon of my mod to cover that, but it really wouldn't be feasable. The scale per hex is too large, and without aircraft of any kind, bringing the enemy to battle would be near on impossible. Still, you never know.

Tankerace: Any news on how the Plan Orange mod is coming along?