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Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:58 pm
by Renegade
We all know the disappointing Surface Action when a vastly superior force deals out only minor Damage to some Ships. In my Game against Allied AI my force managed to not only deal high damage to the Enemy but to total annihilate the allied forces.
I had a Surface Taskforce at Ragoon consist of BB Yamato, BB Mutsu, BB Kongo, CA Chicuma & CA Tone when a undamaged Taskforce of 7 DD try's to pound the Port. Here' what happens:
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Day Time Surface Combat, near Rangoon at 29,34
Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 4
BB Yamato, Shell hits 2
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
Allied Ships
DD Hughes, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
DD Craven, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Conyngham, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
DD Phelps, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
DD Barker, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
DD Edsall, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
DD Thanet, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
The Huges and the Barker took each one 18,1" Hit from the Yamato resulting in a Magazin Explosion. The Combat startetd at a Range of 20.000 Day Time and ended at 8000 Range. It was the longest Surface 2 Surface Action I've ever seen in WitP
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:00 pm
by Nikademus
I guess they wern't worried about more escorts coming up...... [:'(]
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:03 pm
by mogami
[X(] (Mandark laugh) [X(] (did it say "Allied TF surprised"? because I am sure the Allied player was. )
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:08 pm
by Nikademus
Bah.....i say it was the result of a carefully selected commander [;)]
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:10 pm
by Renegade
Yep, selected a very agressive and competent Leader for Surface Fleets
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:17 pm
by Xargun
I got an interesting surface combat. Not quite what I thought would happen when it first started... In another PBeM I'm in I spotted an allied CV TF approaching my invasion force at Rabaul and figured he would come within 2 hexes to use his torpedo bombers.. I combined all my warships into one nice fleet and guessed hexes correctly...
Night Time Surface Combat at 61,90 * SW of Rabaul
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
SOC-3 Seagull: 9 destroyed
Japanese Ships
CA Aoba, Shell hits 2
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 2, on fire
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, Shell hits 1
CL Kashima
DD Hatsuharu, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Wakaba
DD Oboro
DD Uzuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki
Allied Ships
CV Lexington
CA Portland, Shell hits 33, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CA Chicago, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Astoria
DD Mahan, Shell hits 29, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Drayton, Shell hits 1
DD Lamson, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Flusser
DD Porter, Shell hits 5, on fire
Problem is my fleet moved off during daylight and since the Lex wasn't damaged at all she launched bombers at me from 1 hex away... Several ships were hit and the DD Hatsuharu was finished off...
My TF never spotted the CV and one of the DDs, everything else was spotted (named)... Big advantage was my torps hit and the US torps missed or failed to detonate - it doesn't say... Either way I'm sure some more escorts will sink (DD Porter & hopefully the CA Chicago) before he gets to a safe port..
Xargun
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:47 pm
by Panzer76
ORIGINAL: Xargun
Problem is my fleet moved off during daylight and since the Lex wasn't damaged at all she launched bombers at me from 1 hex away... Several ships were hit and the DD Hatsuharu was finished off...
Its pretty much useless trying to intercept a CV, even if you attack the TF in surface combat, they "never" are enganged.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:17 pm
by RAM
Hummm...the name "Glorious" doesn't ring a bell?
Ok,Ok, she was escorted only by a couple of DDs, I was only teasing [:D]
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:40 pm
by sir_lovealot
ORIGINAL: Panzer76
ORIGINAL: Xargun
Problem is my fleet moved off during daylight and since the Lex wasn't damaged at all she launched bombers at me from 1 hex away... Several ships were hit and the DD Hatsuharu was finished off...
Its pretty much useless trying to intercept a CV, even if you attack the TF in surface combat, they "never" are enganged.
That's why we need a simple pop-up for surface combat to pick which enemy ship we choose to receive concentrated fire
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:49 pm
by mogami
Problem is my fleet moved off during daylight and since the Lex wasn't damaged at all she launched bombers at me from 1 hex away... Several ships were hit and the DD Hatsuharu was finished off...
Hi, Didn't quite think that all the way through? You still had the range advantage if you had moved your TF to be more then 4 hexes from where you thought the surface battle would be. [:-] So what if you have to cancel a landing (But I think A6M2 from Truk can provide LCAP to Rabaul) The important thing is what if you had quessed wrong? and they stayed only in SBD range and what if USN commander had also stripped his TF of escorts to run into Rabaul for surface battle. (Or even worse suppose there had been USN TF you didn't see?
Lucky it turned out so well. All in All I think it is sometimes better to be lucky then to be good.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:19 am
by brisd
ORIGINAL: sir_lovealot
ORIGINAL: Panzer76
ORIGINAL: Xargun
Problem is my fleet moved off during daylight and since the Lex wasn't damaged at all she launched bombers at me from 1 hex away... Several ships were hit and the DD Hatsuharu was finished off...
Its pretty much useless trying to intercept a CV, even if you attack the TF in surface combat, they "never" are enganged.
That's why we need a simple pop-up for surface combat to pick which enemy ship we choose to receive concentrated fire
No, that is not a good idea. This an operational/strategic game, not a tactical one.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:50 am
by Ron Saueracker
ORIGINAL: Xargun
I got an interesting surface combat. Not quite what I thought would happen when it first started... In another PBeM I'm in I spotted an allied CV TF approaching my invasion force at Rabaul and figured he would come within 2 hexes to use his torpedo bombers.. I combined all my warships into one nice fleet and guessed hexes correctly...
Night Time Surface Combat at 61,90 * SW of Rabaul
Allied aircraft
no flights
Allied aircraft losses
SOC-3 Seagull: 9 destroyed
Japanese Ships
CA Aoba, Shell hits 2
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 2, on fire
CA Furutaka
CA Kako, Shell hits 1
CL Kashima
DD Hatsuharu, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Nenohi
DD Hatsushima
DD Wakaba
DD Oboro
DD Uzuki, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki
Allied Ships
CV Lexington
CA Portland, Shell hits 33, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CA Chicago, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Astoria
DD Mahan, Shell hits 29, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Drayton, Shell hits 1
DD Lamson, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Flusser
DD Porter, Shell hits 5, on fire
Problem is my fleet moved off during daylight and since the Lex wasn't damaged at all she launched bombers at me from 1 hex away... Several ships were hit and the DD Hatsuharu was finished off...
My TF never spotted the CV and one of the DDs, everything else was spotted (named)... Big advantage was my torps hit and the US torps missed or failed to detonate - it doesn't say... Either way I'm sure some more escorts will sink (DD Porter & hopefully the CA Chicago) before he gets to a safe port..
Xargun
What did Astoria do in this battle?
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:05 am
by Tankerace
What I would do: Run like Hell.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:29 am
by Ron Saueracker
My money is on the possibility she was not detected, or more accurately, randomly left out of the battle. Here is a good example of why this detected/undetected element is out of whack a bit. Astoria is an integral element of Lexington's screen (historically R Admiral W Smith's flagship, the escort commander but this does not matter in the game) and would have been involved in the action at all costs. There can be no explanation which can be given as to why she was uninvolved in this action other than the model is off somewhat in trying to instigate vagaries of night combat. A destroyer I could see,but not the core elements of the screen which are in close proximity to the ship being screened.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:37 am
by Tankerace
Very true. Or, what could have happend is the Lexington beat a hasty retreat, and the Astoria kept close company with her to fend off any would be attackers, leaving the other ships to hold off the TF while the Lady Lex and Astoria made good there escape.
Just an alternatibe theory, not necessarily what I believe.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:59 am
by BartM
actually Tanker that makes more sense
no way would a CV stand and fight under any circumstances, they would be surprised and use full speed out of there as fast as possible wiping the sweat from their foreheads
I would think though a couple of DD's would have broke with Lex and Astoria ? perhaps ?
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:18 am
by Sneer
I had many night CV intercept situation and noticedthat :
you have sth like 50% chance of spotting
and what is important
you can only shoot them in first round so there is virtually no chance of sinking and slight od damaging.
In marianes scenario I managed to put whole Combined fleet in 2 TF in night surface engagement under aggressive commanders against 4 Air TF of Mitcher Deathstar.
Result : 1 CV & 1 CVL moderately damaged, 1 cvl severly damaged and few escort pounded
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:19 am
by Tankerace
ORIGINAL: BartM
actually Tanker that makes more sense
no way would a CV stand and fight under any circumstances, they would be surprised and use full speed out of there as fast as possible wiping the sweat from their foreheads
I would think though a couple of DD's would have broke with Lex and Astoria ? perhaps ?
Well, the Flusser had no damage reported, so she could have broke with them. It's possible at any rate.
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:35 am
by Ron Saueracker
ORIGINAL: Tankerace
Very true. Or, what could have happend is the Lexington beat a hasty retreat, and the Astoria kept close company with her to fend off any would be attackers, leaving the other ships to hold off the TF while the Lady Lex and Astoria made good there escape.
Just an alternatibe theory, not necessarily what I believe.
Astoria may have accompanied Lex, but all were in close proximity of the other initially so if the Portland and Chicago were trading shots with the oncoming Japanese, why would Astoria remain uninvolved?
Oh, well...need sleep, starting to babble a bit.[8D][>:]
RE: Nice Surface Combat!
Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:40 am
by mogami
Hi, Well I guess we are guessing Astoria took no part in the battle because she was not hit?
There is no way to tell from the text report if she fired or not. Eric did you watch the battle? Did Astoria fire at all?
Ron in your battles you never have a ship fire that is not hit? In my last battle the USN fired quite a lot of ammo but they scored very few hits.