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M6 heavy tank

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:06 am
by sven
Ammo or anyone else so inspired I have the stats to the M6, M6a1, and T1E1.

Please let me know if you'd like them. I am trying to figure out the slopes. I have all other data.

regards,
sven

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:21 am
by Warrior
I'd be interested in learning more about any US tank used in WWII that's not currently part of the game Oob.

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:22 am
by sven
Originally posted by REMF:
I'd be interested in learning more about any US tank used in WWII that's not currently part of the game Oob.
Okey dokey...

come chat or I'll post it...

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:24 am
by Warrior
Post it so everybody can see. I'll be in chat later.

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:33 am
by Brummagem
yeah post it :D

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 1:49 am
by Warrior
Sven, you have lost credibility in my eyes. I found some M6 info on the web at: http://www.clubi.ie/exalted/m6heavy.htm. It's obvious it should not be included in the game. (There are also pictures there of other tanks which are in the game. Now I have a mental image to fit the icons.) Of course, if your wanting to include the M6 was merely a way to illustrate a point concerning the abundance of German heavy armor, like the Jagdtiger, then you're forgiven.

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:11 am
by sven
Originally posted by REMF:
Sven, you have lost credibility in my eyes. I found some M6 info on the web at: http://www.clubi.ie/exalted/m6heavy.htm. It's obvious it should not be included in the game. (There are also pictures there of other tanks which are in the game. Now I have a mental image to fit the icons.) Of course, if your wanting to include the M6 was merely a way to illustrate a point concerning the abundance of German heavy armor, like the Jagdtiger, then you're forgiven.

REMF I only want it for a hypothetical I am wanting to do. If every piece of German eqpt. ever made is going to make it in I want the M6 as it was standardized and ALMOST produced in number. Sorry I let you down, but I love vehicle history.

regards,
sven

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:12 am
by sven
Originally posted by REMF:
Post it so everybody can see. I'll be in chat later.
The M6 Heavy Tank

from the Office of the Chief Of Ordnance 1 april 1945.

"Heavy Tanks M6 and M6A1 were standardized in May 1942, at which time they were the largest and most powerful tanks ever built in the U.S., weighing over60 tons each. Shortly, afterward the Ordnance Committee authorized Limited Procurement of Heavy Tank T1E1, sometimes referred to as Heavy Tank M6A2. Because of changes in tactical thinking, comparatively few of these tanks were built and in December 1944 all three models were declared obsolete.

Heavy Tank M6 had a cast hull and a cast turret. Heavy Tank M6A1 had a welded hull and a cast turret. Each was powered by a Wright G-200 gasoline engine through a hydraulic torque converter and transmission. The torque converter, transmission, and final drive were mounted directly behind the engine, connected by a flexible coupling, without the use of a propeller shaft. A pedal, placed in the position usually occupied by a clutch pedal, served as a transmission brake pedal. Two forward speeds and one reverse speed were provided.

Heavy Tank T1E1 was similar to the M6 in general design, but used an electric drive. A large direct current generator was mounted directly behind the engine. This generator converted the mechanical output of the engine into electrical power for two traction motors, one for eaach track. The tank had varying speeds up to 22 mph., and could turn in its own radius.

These vehicles had as their principal armament a 3-In. Gun M7 mounted with a 37-mm Gun M6. Additional firepower was provided by a cal. .30 machine gun on the turret for antiaircraft use, two cal. .50 machine guns in the bow, and a cal. .30 machine gun (flexible) in the bow. Provision was made for carrying two cal. .45 submachine guns.

The turret guns had elevations from -10 degrees to +30 degress and could be traversed 360 degrees by an electrically operated mechanism or by hand. A gyrostabilizer was provided.

The 3-In. Gun M7 was the same as used on teh 3-In. Gun Motor Carriage M10, which proved so effective against Marshal Rommel's troops in North Africa. Fired from this gun, the 3-in. APC projectile had a muzzle velocity of 2,600 feet per second and at 45 degrees elevation a maximum range of 16,100 yards. It could penetrate 3.9 inches of 20 degrees obliquity homogeneous armor plate at 1,000 yards.

A horizontal volute spring suspension was used, with four bogie assemblies on each track. Each assembly had four bogie wheels, two wheels riding the outside half of the track and two the inside half. Two Volute springs were mounted horizontally on each bogie assembly.

Each track block consisted, in effect, of two shoes held together by connecting pins. The pins were bare between the shoes, to provide space for a center track connector. Shoes were half rubber and half steel, the steel side making contact against the ground, and the rubber side riding against the bogie wheels and idlers.

The driving sprockets were at the rear of the vehicle. In addition to the main idler, provided to adjust each track, there was an auxillary, non-adjustable idler between the main idler and the front bogie assembly. This gave additional track support when crossing rough terrain.

Maximum armor protection was 3 1/4 inches, as compared to the 2 1/2 in on medium tank M4. An armor plate skirting was used over each suspension.

Six periscopes were provided. There were four escape doors.

References- TM9-721:OCM15842,15946,16040,16200,16297,16477,16655,17812,17906,17952,18059,18283,18544,18984,19199,19625,19981,20034,20680,26039,26357:SNL G-118, vols. 1 and 2."

Characteristics

Physical Characteristics were

Weight(gross) 126,500 lbs.
Length Gun Forward 27' 8", hull only 24'9"
width(overall) 10'2 1/2"
Height Top of turret 9'10", MG Mount 10'7"
Turret ring diameter(inside) 69"
Ground Clearence 20 1/2 in.
tread(center to center of tracks) 93 in.
Ground contact length 186 in.
Ground pressure 12.3 lb/sq. in.

Armament
3 inch gun M7 and 37mm gun m6 in combination gum mount t49 in turret

1 m1919a4 in bow
1 m1919a4 on turret
2 .50 cal m2 hb in bow
2 .45 M3 greaseguns

Ammo storage

3in. 75 rounds
37mm 202 rounds
.50 cal 5700 rounds
.45 cal 1200 rounds
.30 cal 7500 rounds
12 hand grenades

damn this is long I'll continue it if asked....

sorry...

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:38 am
by Warrior
All is forgiven. But what happened? All of a sudden this particular topic comes up in large page instead of 800x600. I checked the other topics and they're still OK...

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 2:42 am
by sven
Originally posted by REMF:
All is forgiven. But what happened? All of a sudden this particular topic comes up in large page instead of 800x600. I checked the other topics and they're still OK...
It is because it is so big and long

sorry

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 3:33 am
by Brummagem
Ok Sven, you can have your Americamn M6 if I can have my German Cruiser.

June 23rd of 1942, Dir. Dip. Ing. Grote (along with Dr.Hacker) from the Ministry of Armament, who was responsible for the production of U-Boots suggested the development of a tank with a weight of 1000 tons. Adolf Hitler himself expressed interest in this project and allowed Krupp to go ahead with it. Project was designated as Krupp P 1000 (Ratte - Rat). This "land cruiser" would be 35 meters long, 14 meters wide and 11 meters high. P 1000 would be equipped with 3.6 meters wide tracks per side made of three 1.2 meters tracks, similar to those used in excavators working in coalmines. It was planned to power P 1000 with two MAN V12Z32/44 24 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 17000hp (2 x 8500hp) or with eight Daimler-Benz MB501 20 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 16000hp (8 x 2000hp). According to the calculations it would allow P 1000 to travel at maximum speed of 40km/h. P 1000 would be armed with a variety of weapons such as: two 280mm gun (naval gun used in Scharnhorst and Gneisenau warships), single 128mm gun, eight 20mm Flak 38 anti-aircraft guns and two 15mm Mauser MG 151/15 gun.

In December of 1942, Krupp created new design of 1500 ton tank - P 1500. It frontal armor would be 250mm thick and it would be armed with 800mm super heavy mortar "Dora" type and possibly two 150mm artillery pieces. P 1500 would be powered by two or four submarine diesel engines. In early 1943, Albert Speer cancelled both projects. P 1000 turret ended up at coastal defence battery (Batterie Oerlander) near Trondheim, Norway.

Even before P 1000 and P 1500, in 1939, Krupp began working on other similar projects for projected series of self-propelled coastal guns for the German Navy - Kriegsmarine. Series was to include 14 different platforms designated from R1 to R14. Armament was to range from 150mm to 380mm and it was to be mounted on fully traversible turntables on tracked carriages. One of the designs was R2 coastal gun armed with 280mm gun. The series never left drawing boards.
Specifications for P 1000
Weight: 900000-1000000kg
Crew: - men
Engine: 2 x MAN V12Z32/44 Diesel / 24-cylinder / 2 x 8500hp
8 x Daimler-Benz MB501 Diesel / 20-cylinder / 8 x 2000hp
Speed: Road: 40km/h
Cross-Country: --km/h
Range: Road: ---km
Cross-Country: ---km
Fuel Capacity: --- litres
Lenght: 35.00m
Width: 14.00m
Height: 11.00m
Armament: 2 x 280mm SK.C/34 L/54.4
1 x 128mm Kanone
8 x 20mm Flak 38
2 x 15mm Mauser MG 151/15

Ammo: -- rounds
Armor (mm/angle): Turret Front: 360mm / ?
Turret Side: 220mm / ?
Turret Rear: ? / ?
Turret Top: 150mm / ?

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 3:34 am
by sven
Originally posted by Brummagem:
Ok Sven, you can have your Americamn M6 if I can have my German Cruiser.

June 23rd of 1942, Dir. Dip. Ing. Grote (along with Dr.Hacker) from the Ministry of Armament, who was responsible for the production of U-Boots suggested the development of a tank with a weight of 1000 tons. Adolf Hitler himself expressed interest in this project and allowed Krupp to go ahead with it. Project was designated as Krupp P 1000 (Ratte - Rat). This "land cruiser" would be 35 meters long, 14 meters wide and 11 meters high. P 1000 would be equipped with 3.6 meters wide tracks per side made of three 1.2 meters tracks, similar to those used in excavators working in coalmines. It was planned to power P 1000 with two MAN V12Z32/44 24 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 17000hp (2 x 8500hp) or with eight Daimler-Benz MB501 20 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 16000hp (8 x 2000hp). According to the calculations it would allow P 1000 to travel at maximum speed of 40km/h. P 1000 would be armed with a variety of weapons such as: two 280mm gun (naval gun used in Scharnhorst and Gneisenau warships), single 128mm gun, eight 20mm Flak 38 anti-aircraft guns and two 15mm Mauser MG 151/15 gun.

In December of 1942, Krupp created new design of 1500 ton tank - P 1500. It frontal armor would be 250mm thick and it would be armed with 800mm super heavy mortar "Dora" type and possibly two 150mm artillery pieces. P 1500 would be powered by two or four submarine diesel engines. In early 1943, Albert Speer cancelled both projects. P 1000 turret ended up at coastal defence battery (Batterie Oerlander) near Trondheim, Norway.

Even before P 1000 and P 1500, in 1939, Krupp began working on other similar projects for projected series of self-propelled coastal guns for the German Navy - Kriegsmarine. Series was to include 14 different platforms designated from R1 to R14. Armament was to range from 150mm to 380mm and it was to be mounted on fully traversible turntables on tracked carriages. One of the designs was R2 coastal gun armed with 280mm gun. The series never left drawing boards.
Specifications for P 1000
Weight: 900000-1000000kg
Crew: - men
Engine: 2 x MAN V12Z32/44 Diesel / 24-cylinder / 2 x 8500hp
8 x Daimler-Benz MB501 Diesel / 20-cylinder / 8 x 2000hp
Speed: Road: 40km/h
Cross-Country: --km/h
Range: Road: ---km
Cross-Country: ---km
Fuel Capacity: --- litres
Lenght: 35.00m
Width: 14.00m
Height: 11.00m
Armament: 2 x 280mm SK.C/34 L/54.4
1 x 128mm Kanone
8 x 20mm Flak 38
2 x 15mm Mauser MG 151/15

Ammo: -- rounds
Armor (mm/angle): Turret Front: 360mm / ?
Turret Side: 220mm / ?
Turret Rear: ? / ?
Turret Top: 150mm / ?
Just as long as we get our A-Bomb!

:D

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:02 am
by AmmoSgt
I think the main point here is that the US M-6was actually made .. 40 of them ..
and it would be nice to have them for "what if" scenarios .. if this was simply a case of planed but never made then I don't think anybody would even ask .... 40 units made, while not many, exceeds some german stuff that is already in the game..and Both the AI and axis PBEM players regulary use rare equipment with no regard for quanity produced ( in earlier versions or with raity off now i supose) and with no regard for any historical concern if said equipment was actually used in a particular theater .. these existing situations are not even labeled "what if's" .. they are accepted as standard axis gaming practice ...
funny how that works

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:06 am
by AmmoSgt
I hope i didn't hurt anybodies feelings but to be sure i didn't let me reassure folks that their is an easter bunny , a santa claus, and a PZIII MineRaum, and a Maus that all actually saw combat ...Santa Himself got a Legion of Merit for hand to hand combat..
so relax

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:08 am
by sven
so ammo do you want more stats???

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:12 am
by sven
Originally posted by Brummagem:
Ok Sven, you can have your Americamn M6 if I can have my German Cruiser.

June 23rd of 1942, Dir. Dip. Ing. Grote (along with Dr.Hacker) from the Ministry of Armament, who was responsible for the production of U-Boots suggested the development of a tank with a weight of 1000 tons. Adolf Hitler himself expressed interest in this project and allowed Krupp to go ahead with it. Project was designated as Krupp P 1000 (Ratte - Rat). This "land cruiser" would be 35 meters long, 14 meters wide and 11 meters high. P 1000 would be equipped with 3.6 meters wide tracks per side made of three 1.2 meters tracks, similar to those used in excavators working in coalmines. It was planned to power P 1000 with two MAN V12Z32/44 24 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 17000hp (2 x 8500hp) or with eight Daimler-Benz MB501 20 cylinder Diesel marine engines with total power of 16000hp (8 x 2000hp). According to the calculations it would allow P 1000 to travel at maximum speed of 40km/h. P 1000 would be armed with a variety of weapons such as: two 280mm gun (naval gun used in Scharnhorst and Gneisenau warships), single 128mm gun, eight 20mm Flak 38 anti-aircraft guns and two 15mm Mauser MG 151/15 gun.

In December of 1942, Krupp created new design of 1500 ton tank - P 1500. It frontal armor would be 250mm thick and it would be armed with 800mm super heavy mortar "Dora" type and possibly two 150mm artillery pieces. P 1500 would be powered by two or four submarine diesel engines. In early 1943, Albert Speer cancelled both projects. P 1000 turret ended up at coastal defence battery (Batterie Oerlander) near Trondheim, Norway.

Even before P 1000 and P 1500, in 1939, Krupp began working on other similar projects for projected series of self-propelled coastal guns for the German Navy - Kriegsmarine. Series was to include 14 different platforms designated from R1 to R14. Armament was to range from 150mm to 380mm and it was to be mounted on fully traversible turntables on tracked carriages. One of the designs was R2 coastal gun armed with 280mm gun. The series never left drawing boards.
Specifications for P 1000
Weight: 900000-1000000kg
Crew: - men
Engine: 2 x MAN V12Z32/44 Diesel / 24-cylinder / 2 x 8500hp
8 x Daimler-Benz MB501 Diesel / 20-cylinder / 8 x 2000hp
Speed: Road: 40km/h
Cross-Country: --km/h
Range: Road: ---km
Cross-Country: ---km
Fuel Capacity: --- litres
Lenght: 35.00m
Width: 14.00m
Height: 11.00m
Armament: 2 x 280mm SK.C/34 L/54.4
1 x 128mm Kanone
8 x 20mm Flak 38
2 x 15mm Mauser MG 151/15

Ammo: -- rounds
Armor (mm/angle): Turret Front: 360mm / ?
Turret Side: 220mm / ?
Turret Rear: ? / ?
Turret Top: 150mm / ?
Oh and by the way Like Ammo says: ours was built was that? Didn't think so. That is what standardized means.

Look it is okay that every single thing ever built thought of or dreamed in Germany is in the OOB. I just wish we had a few more hypotheticals. Don't worry I am sure your Cruiser will make it into someone's patch!

regards,
sven

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 4:17 am
by Drex
Let's have the M6. the US needs a heavy tank.

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 6:42 am
by Jeff Norton
Sven,
From what I remember of the back gate of APG, its somewhere near the old duck-pond or the old JAG offices by ATC labs???

I live in HDG and have not been on post since '98.

Have they begun to restore those poor, rusting soldiers yet? They were in poor shape when I first saw them in '95...

And, to think, how all the others are just rusting away on that 'open' museum behind the main building.

Sad, really sad....
-Jeff

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 6:45 am
by sven
Originally posted by Jeff Norton:
Sven,
From what I remember of the back gate of APG, its somewhere near the old duck-pond or the old JAG offices by ATC labs???

I live in HDG and have not been on post since '98.

Have they begun to restore those poor, rusting soldiers yet? They were in poor shape when I first saw them in '95...

And, to think, how all the others are just rusting away on that 'open' museum behind the main building.

Sad, really sad....
-Jeff

Yes it is. My wife and I volunteer. They are desperately trying to get the funds to take them all indoors.

I fear if we are not careful we will lose those pieces of history. I would build it tomorrow if i had the money. Still a nice place to visit, but it could be so much more...

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2001 7:32 am
by Richard Harris
The only thing I could find on the M6, comes from "Tank Data World War II, Aberdeen Proving Grounds Series" WE Inc. Old Greenwich, Conn (no date)
Armour: Hull front: 5" (127mm/?)(angle similar to Lee/Grant?)
Hull sides: 2-2.5" (51-64mm/?)(Looks pretty near vertical except for some slight angle on the upper hull.)
Turret front: 3.5" (89mm/?)(Angle like Sherman, not sure if thickness includes mantlet, I'd say not.)
Turret side: 3.5" (89mm/?)(Very slight angle, if any.)
Ammo stowage: 3" - 75rds
37mm - 340rds
.50 cal - 8,000rds
.30 cal - 4,000rds
First manufactured in 1941 by the Baldwin Locomotive Co.
I hope this is of some help, there is more, but it seems like you had most of the rest of it.
As for the "Deutsche Uberpanzer!, American Supertank!, Deutsche Uberpanzer!!, American Supertank!!, DEUTSCHE UBERPANZER!!!, AMEEERICAN SUUUPERTANK!!!, DUCK SEASON!< RABBIT SEASON!! etc..." arguments, I have three words to say to you. "Black Prince" and "Tortoise" :D :p beeepbeep