Page 1 of 3
1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:08 pm
by MadmanRick
Ok,
From what I can gather from the readme file, the ASW routines were reworked in 1.3. However, I am currently in a PBEM game (restarted under 1.3) in which I as the Japanese, have had 11 subs sunk in and around Pearl and it's ONLY Dec. 17th!! Talk about uber Allies ASW. Also, I've done less damage with my sub attacks than I did in 1.21, as I've only managed a few hits on this uber ASW onslaught. Wow, I'm not sure I even wanna make it to '43 at this rate. Comments?
Game preferences are (that relate to subs):
Allied Sub Doctrine: on
Japanese Sub Doctrine: on
Auto Sub Ops: off
Rick
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:13 pm
by madflava13
How many ships in those ASW TFs? Are you crowding multiple subs into each hex? Have they been spotted? Do you move them when they're spotted? Have they made attacks prior to the ASW forces arriving?
Also, with IJN doctrine on, they won't attack Merchies as much, just warships - so maybe they're going after the ASW TFs and dying as a result?
All these factors play a part... Need more info to evaluate!
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:44 pm
by castor troy
I don´t know what has been reworked! I try to attack those dammed USN-subs with multiple jap DDs but they don´t even get a shot. If they hit one, it seems they don´t do much damage. Otherwise my subs are attacked by US DDs, MSW,... and with a single hit they are going to the bottom!!! [:@][:@][:@][:@][:@]
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:48 pm
by Nikademus
ASW was modified slightly to increase chances for misses.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:50 pm
by Twotribes
If you put your subs in a dangerous area, they likely will get sunk. Pearl is not a good spot to hang out for the Japanese, LOTS of search Aircraft and LOTS of destroyers and MSW to hunt down any spotted subs.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:50 pm
by steveh11Matrix
Interesting: I've run an ai-vs-ai game from Dec7th to Apr2nd (in 1.3), and so far the Japanese have lost NO subs at all, while the Allies (Sub Doctrine OFF) have lost around 8 or 9.
Steve.
(I'm running this as a means of setting up a scenario for myself. I *really* wish I could export the savegame file into something that the scenario editor could read!)
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:11 pm
by Honda
Yes, you get your pizza as an atachment. I would be checking my mail if i were you...
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:35 pm
by Xargun
ORIGINAL: MadmanRick
Ok,
From what I can gather from the readme file, the ASW routines were reworked in 1.3. However, I am currently in a PBEM game (restarted under 1.3) in which I as the Japanese, have had 11 subs sunk in and around Pearl and it's ONLY Dec. 17th!! Talk about uber Allies ASW. Also, I've done less damage with my sub attacks than I did in 1.21, as I've only managed a few hits on this uber ASW onslaught. Wow, I'm not sure I even wanna make it to '43 at this rate. Comments?
Game preferences are (that relate to subs):
Allied Sub Doctrine: on
Japanese Sub Doctrine: on
Auto Sub Ops: off
Rick
Placing subs too close to PH is asking to be sunk... I refuse to place my subs closer than 3-4 hexes away and even then they get spotted by search aircraft from PH.. Once spotted, if you do not move the sub then you cannot complain that it gets sunk.. Same thing with when it attacks - hit or miss - move it as its spotted...
One big thing also affects success of ASW - number of ships in the TF... If you are being hunted by 10 US DDs then you are meat - that is a lot of ASW power... If its all been by groups of 3-4 DDs then there might be a problem... Need more input..
Xargun
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:59 pm
by benway9
i am playing the as the allies in MadmanRick's PBEM game. the ASW groups have only been 3-4 DD's per TF. havent created anything like a 10 ship ASW, not even close.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:14 pm
by Xargun
ORIGINAL: benway9
i am playing the as the allies in MadmanRick's PBEM game. the ASW groups have only been 3-4 DD's per TF. havent created anything like a 10 ship ASW, not even close.
Are the subs spotted ? Or are you chancing upon them ?
Xargun
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:04 pm
by Renegade
In my Game (started in 1.21 Lemurs! MOD) against AI, ASW changed extremly. In 1.21 a detected Japanese Sub was a dead one. Now my Subs do
1.) Survive 2 direct ASW Hits and still make it to Port
2.) get much less attacked than before. I often get an ASW Attack POP Up, without actually a depth charge beeing fired cause my sub simply escaped or the destroyers completely missed their salvos.
The Hit rate of my SUB Torpedos is like in 1.21 they do still hit hard
Sadly the Allied Subs are more difficult to destroy too.......
Cheers,
Bluecher
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:04 pm
by pad152
I'm play Japan against the allied AI, I like the way AI moves it's sub around, in 1.2X enemy subs would just sit in the same hex. I still think it's bogus to have every ship in a TF fire on subs.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:12 pm
by madflava13
ORIGINAL: pad152
I'm play Japan against the allied AI, I like the way AI moves it's sub around, in 1.2X enemy subs would just sit in the same hex. I still think it's bogus to have every ship in a TF fire on subs.
I disagree - Tactics at the time usually involved one or two of the ASW vessels keeping contact with the sub while the rest made DC runs over top... Then they'd repeat as needed. I think that's pretty much what we see with the system now - most ships make firing runs, but not all.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 7:19 pm
by benway9
the subs are spotted, i see them from the day before's spotting reports, and i vector my asw TF's to those hexes, i usually will get a kill it seems.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:03 pm
by Ron Saueracker
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ASW was modified slightly to increase chances for misses.
Completely ineffective. Youy guys have been dicking around with this for how long and it still is a slaughter house? My first ASW attack vs 2nd ACRs Iboat in deep water since patch. 7 hits out of 8 dcs dropped.[8|]
One SOP in the artillery when adjusting targets was to "bracket" the target. The use of larger corrections achieves this. You have been creeping the shots. Bracket it man. Why not try what I've been asking for since before release? [&:]
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 8:26 pm
by Moquia
Ron has spoken. The asw is still bogus...[8|]
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:06 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Honda
Yes, you get your pizza as an atachment. I would be checking my mail if i were you...
I hear that Domino's can now fax you a pizza and there's no loss of taste!
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:16 pm
by dtravel
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: Honda
Yes, you get your pizza as an atachment. I would be checking my mail if i were you...
I hear that Domino's can now fax you a pizza and there's no loss of taste!
Depending on what ink and paper he puts in the machine, it might even improve it. [:'(]
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:32 pm
by Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Completely ineffective. Youy guys have been dicking around with this for how long and it still is a slaughter house? My first ASW attack vs 2nd ACRs Iboat in deep water since patch. 7 hits out of 8 dcs dropped.[8|]
"us" guys?
Actually ASW tinkering wasn't in the orig plans for the current patch. it was a freebie.
RE: 1.3 ASW reworked? HMMM...
Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:55 pm
by Ron Saueracker
ORIGINAL: Nikademus
ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
Completely ineffective. Youy guys have been dicking around with this for how long and it still is a slaughter house? My first ASW attack vs 2nd ACRs Iboat in deep water since patch. 7 hits out of 8 dcs dropped.[8|]
"us" guys?
Actually ASW tinkering wasn't in the orig plans for the current patch. it was a freebie.
Not the betas. Most thought it needed serious downward tweaking before release.
"Actually ASW tinkering wasn't in the orig plans for the current patch."
This is what I mean. Most players, not just many of the betas, now think it is too effective yet still no real change. When you see 80-90% accuracy from individual DCs anyone can see there is a accuracy problem.