Matrix Games Forums

I came up with an idea for a really interesting, but very detailed campaign scenario. Basically, WWII doesn't happen. Russia invades Poland first, so the Western allies view the Russo-German war as something they don't want involved in. Japan and the U.S. are on speaking terms (either Japan hasn't become involved in China or they've been a lot more "civilized" in their treatment of the Chinese). Basically what happens is Japan attacks the Dutch Netherlands and becomes involved in a war with Britain, France, and the Dutch. U.S. is neutral, but without a war in the atlantic, there are plenty of British and French ships to go around.

second idea:
Since the above is such a massive undertaking, I decided for something else to help me understand the editor before I really got started. Basically the JAps are stronger, but so is China. Japs start at the Manchu border, and, with the exception of owning the entire Shanghai hex, they don't have any of the possessions they recieved after 1937, including indochina. This turned into a pet project and I've had a blast trying new ideas. I've probably spent more time on it than I would have on the above English, French, and Japanese war. As of right now I've added:

Japs:
4 new classes of Jap BBs
2 new classes of BCs
1 new class of CA
1 new class of DE
2 extra Kongos
1 extra Kaga and an extra Akagi
and (my favorite) 6 slow but heavily armored CVEs
the G8N heavy bomber
the G6N1 (instead of an "escort bomber" I'm using it as a "heavy fighter" - a a two engine FB)

Brits
1 new class of BB
2 new classes of BC (Hood and a cool fictitous BCL)
1 new class of CV (Malta class)

French
the Bretagne Class BB
the Colbert Class CA
4 air units and 9 LCUs in IndoChina

Dutch
1 new CA class

US
2 new classes of BB
1 new class of BC (constellation class)
an extra Lexington Class CV
The Langley will be a CV, CVL or a CVE

China(!?)
the real chinese 1937 navy, based on actual names of vessels (I had to guess for stats, though) 2CAs 5CLs 12PGs and 5PCs. I also added a buttload of PTs for good measure.
I'm currently working on the chinese air force, including aircraft factories deep in china.

One problem - I'm no artist. All new ships are using old pics.

If anyone wants to take a look at this one it should be ready in a week or three. Keep in mind, I did this one for funzies, so for every well informed and thoroughly thought out detail (like the chinese navy) there's about five ideas that got tossed in for the hell of it (aircraft factories in china, producing chinese designs!!!).

-The big trouble with this scenario is how to simulate USA neutrality, since the USA controls the Philippines, a key area for Japanese expansion and supply lines, and the USA would have been eventually involved in such a scenario. If we had an event editor like in TOAW/ACOW it would have been possible to simulate this effect of a neutral USA that could or not enter the war depending on certain key events (another way, of course, is to create house rules preventing the allied player from moving USA troops). A third way is simply to ignore the USA, but I think the scenario would be somewhat strange. A fourth option is to delete the USA invasion of the Philipines in your alternate history, thus allowing the Philippines to be an independent nation or a Japanese puppet state. Maybe you could make the Philippinos defeat the USA in their independence war, or maybe the Japanese were allies of the USA in the American Spanish war and they took Philippines as a prize.

yeah, this scenario would probably be too much of a pain in the ass to be worth the tremendous effort. The only way I could mesh it with even semi-semi-historical belief would be to have the US available as an undeclared ally of the brit/french. Not only would this limit the game to two-player only, but it would require a several pages of complex house rules.

Now a US vs British scenario . . . that would be interesting. [:D]

You're right, it would be interesting, but probably quite short in 1941 due to other commitments. [;)]

Why not a scenario with Britain and Japan allied against the US?
For exemple Britain decides they had rather pick their fair of China rather than break with their good old friends the Japanese.

Uncle Sam would also like to get his fair share but the tricky pommies won't listen. So the US get P***** off and go for a remake of 1812.[:D]

Could be interesting.....

Arstavidios,

I have spent some time working on one of these [:)]

My idea was that the Britain had been 'Vichied' after the fall of France and the Nazi sympathiser Oswald Mosley had taken over and Churchill had fled to Canada. Germany would be locked in battle with the Russians.

There would be a rebellion in India against the British. Australia, New Zealand and Canada would have broken their links to Britain. A selection of 'Free British' units would be available to the allies but much of the Royal Navy would be Mosley controlled. The US would be active in Europe stirring up rebellions in the UK and France as well as landing in North Africa so that they could not concentrate on the Pacific. However they would have strengthened the Philippines and DEI before the war began so these areas would not be such a push over.

The idea would be that the Japanese / Mosley British start with Singapore / Malaya / Burma as well as a few British ships, planes and troops. They would have access to the better UK late war planes (Spitfires, Lancasters, Tempests and Mosquitoes), plus a lot of extra ships (their production / economy would have to be boosted to reflect this due to the way Japan gets reinforcements).

The allies would start far more ready for war with more and better ships, squadrons and land units in theatre. The US would have been gearing up for war (if not actually at war with Germany) for a year or two in advance. So while the Japanese would be on the offensive initially the allies would not be the whipping boys they are now. But as the initiative changed the Japanese would have a lot more staying power with a selection of better planes and more ships coming on line.

However graphics is a big problem, especially for new types. Even the things in the database will cause problems. I think I can just move many of the UK ships to Japanese slots and nationality (they will have to fight as Japanese) but they will be facing the wrong way!

Interesting idea. I've been on a "weird history" kick lately; this idea fits the bill even better than my current "SuperJapan and SuperChina" experiment. how would you handle the additional planes? There's quite a shortage of slots for axis planes.

The plane slot shortage is a problem. But quite a few of the Japanese planes can be got rid of and you don't need to model many of the UK planes.

Many Japanese planes such as the Suzie and Jean don't even appear in the game [X(] So those slots can be taken by the Swordfish and Seafire. Which in turn can upgrade to the better Japanese mid to late war models.

Many UK planes can be ditched or confined to the 'Free British' side [:)] The selection of second rate Vilderbeasts, Hudsons and Buffalo's won't be missed in the main.

Instead a suite of Spitfires and Heavier bombers would be added for the Japanese. I recon it can be done with 9 land based air slots - Blenheim IV, Wellington, Mosquito, Lancaster IV, Halifax I, Spitfire V, Spitfire VIII, Typhoon II and Tempest. In 1.3 I had 5 spares Japanese slots and could axe any of the following - E8N Dave, Ki-36 Ida, Ki-45 KA1c Nick, Ki-84-1c Frank (seems worse than the Frank it replaces!), Ki-59 Theresa, Ki-54 Hickory, Ki-32 Mary - all of which have similar replacements and / or are not much used.

The UK planes would have two engine types for those used. Bristol and Griffon/Merlin (I can't remember the company at the moment). Possibly one other for the Typhoon/Tempest as well. I'll have to check. Anyway the Japanese have plenty of unused engine types [:)]

So while the limited number of slots is a problem it's not insurmountable

Can you set "British" for the nationality without crashing the game, or do you just set all units for IJN and/or IJA?

btw, this kinda reminds me of an idea I once kicked around, but never tried. It was basically a newly independant India (recent revolt) joining the axis. I never worked out how to introduce British units into the game, though; since Karachi is in India.

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Can you set "British" for the nationality without crashing the game, or do you just set all units for IJN and/or IJA?

I was just going to set them as IJA / IJN.

In my scenario India is still allied (or mostly so) therefore the Karachi problem does not arise for Free British units.

However there are the problems of ship withdrawals for the allies. Also the British ships on the axis side have to be built. Hong Kong and / or Singapore are possibilities rather than the Japnese ports themselves. As are adding many of them as heavily damaged in Japaneses ports so they can be repaired as and when wanted. I will add some extra industry to Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaya nad even Rangoon. To reflect this is Mosley's bolt hole should things go wrong in the UK....