Matrix Games Forums

Surviving the first 6 months as the Allies (Or Running and hiding for dummies)


OK, it is December 8th, 1941 and your fleet just got the snot kicked out of it. How are you ever going to manage to recover and achieve ultimate victory?

The road will be long but the first 6 months are the key. Follow the suggestions listed below and you will have a good chance of surviving and achieving that ultimate victory.

Above all remember one thing throughout these early dark days: You don’t have to win the war in the first 6 months… just make sure you don’t lose it.

PH:

First wait for the KB to leave. Before sending any ships back to the mainland for repair you must clear the area of subs. Put a few LBA units on ASW patrol and form ASW TFs to clear the surrounding waters. Then send the moderately damaged ships to West coast ports (Splitting them up to maximize ship yards). The seriously and lightly damaged ships should stay put.

Send the carriers South until the KB leaves then pull then into PH. Send out every sub you can setting Singapore as it’s new base.

West Coast.

Load tankers with oil and pair them with AKs with supply or fuel and send them to Sydney via Suva. This will avoid the Jap air units. Load everyone else up with supplies and fuel and send them the same way. Every LCU and LBA unit that can be loaded should also be sent to OZ via this route. Order several AS/AE/AR/ MLE units. Don’t worry about ADs.

Wake/Midway

If Wake holds send DMs and MLs from PH to mine Wake. Brining PT boats up also helps. Have the units dig in and wait for round 2. You may even consider fast transporting a CD gun unit up to reinforce the defenders. IF Wake fall do all of this at Midway. Consider moving an AS up there to act as a forward sub base.

PI

Initiate Operation “Get the hell out of Dodge” as soon as possible. Load every AK with resources or fuel and every TK with oil or fuel and head to Darwin. You will have to move the oil out later but don’t worry about that now. Also evacuate every base force that is not in a hex with combat units. They will only get overrun anyway so get them out. PT boats and subs out of Manila and can harass the invasion fleets. Just before the curtain falls evacuate the air units to China or Darwin and pull out base forces and HQs by sub. The PP cost is almost nothing if they have been worn down. They will regrow to fight another day. Surface ships should go to Serobaja (sp) to consolidate. They will eventually go to OZ.

DEI

Don’t discount the Dutch. They put up a hell of a fight despite their obsolete equipment. If the real Dutch units fought like this they deserve our utmost respect. First sortie every sub and sent them towards Malaya and base them out of Singapore. They will exact a huge toll. Consolidate your air units into 1 or 2 bases so as to launch massive air strikes against relatively unprotected transports. Send the PT boats up to Singapore to help there. Like in the PI evacuate every base force that is not with a combat unit to Darwin. As the end nears pull out the others and as many air units as you can to Darwin. The Dutch recon units later fly F-5a recon planes. Take every drop of oil, fuel, and resources to OZ as soon as possible. All you need is supplies. You don’t need the resourses but you can deny them to the enemy. Use you consolidated naval units to raid forward beaches where transports are unloading then run for OZ. Use the MLs to drop a present before running to India or OZ.

Malaya

It is going to fall. Just make it take time and cost Japs. Immediately pull every base force and air unit into fortress Singapore and start building forts. Have the other units put up a delaying action then run for the fort. Use the Dutch PTs to raid the nearby beaches. Task Force Z is a must. Even though it is doomed to fail, politically it must be done. Pull any survivors back to the DEI for a fight there. The air units out of Singapore can eventually fly to China or to Burma to fight on. At the end use subs to pull out samples of units so they can be reformed later. Remember that South East Asia is not a restricted command so no PPs need be spent. Get transports and warships out under Operation “Brave Sir Robin” (Run away!) Make sure to take fuel and resources with you.

Burma

Sending Chinese units to take Hanoi can divert units away from Malaya and destroy HI. Make sure you have a path back to China.

India

Move everyone up near Dacca and dig in. Be willing to surrender everything South. 2-3k worth of dug in units will stop any Jap advance. Use cargo TFs to run fuel and supplies to OZ via a route away from the DEI. Consider moving the AVG in to help. Air units out of Dacca can harass the Jap advance.

China

Aside from a raid on Hanoi, dig in. Don’t worry about building airfields until you have level 9 forts. Spreading out your units allows for what has been called the “Cat herding defense”. By staying off the roads the Japs must either follow you into the bush or risk being cut off. Either one slows the advance and allows time for other units to dig in.

OZ

This is where you run and hide to. Build every airfield to it’s max before worrying about ports or forts. Concentrated air power is all that will stop the Japs. Move everything up to the Cairns/Townsville area as well as sending some units to Darwin to assist the survivors of the DEI. Don’t worry about PM until the front has stabilized. Even if the Japs take it early you can pound it by air and starve it out. Once the units arrive from the US you should be able to hold off any further Jap advances.

CV Units

Hide until you are even in number to the KB. Only use them for quick raids against shipping when you know the KB is far away and the LBA is weak. Lose them early and you could lose the war.

Sub warfare Your old S boats are the only US subs with woring toprs. Use them and the Brit/Dutch subs for anti-shipping work. Use the other (Including the Dutch O19 and O20) as mine layers and leave "presents" for Japan in very port that you can

General: Get all your 4E bombers (Mostly B-17s until June 42) to the same base. They are able to punch through even the toughest CAP/Flak and are the only thing that can hurt the KB early on. They can also level any base that Japan tries to consentrate AC or ships at.

This is a general outline of what has worked for me. Any comments are welcome.

Looks like pretty solid advice overall. I've had success in pulling whatever Dutch units I could get my hands on into Timor and turning that place into a last ditch DEI fortress. However this was aginst the AI. I doubt if it would be as successful against a human player.

I looove your banner.[;)]

Thanks Herr Kaleun. Wimmen and war. They go together like butter and toast. [:D]

Rup...do you usually try to send some APs north and pull those Australian units out of Rabaul?

I have some interesting advise to add, and believe me, I'm dying to do so. But I had better wait until my PBEM games have progressed a little farther. But yes, it's good adivce.

-F-

Thanks for the write up!

A couple of brief notes...

AE's only start to work in 1945, so making them right away is a waste (I found out the hard way). Better to put a heavy emphasis on AR's.

AS's need a port size 3 or larger to function. It takes Wake a while to build up to that level. Midway gets there first, so watch the port sizes and put an AS in Midway and then in Wake as each becomes ready.

fortress timor certainly works.....it keeps the supply route to java open and timor itself is easy to supply from darwin.
i also like evac my FK.51's staight away. they are utterly usless as they lack the range to do anything exept maybe coastal recon.

load up all the units in tjilipatiap and tansport them to the OZ. train em and your recon forces will be boosted to an insane level.


pow and repulse dash certainly is a must...they sunk kongo and jap DD in a shell logging fest with the loss of 1 cl and 1 dd.

Once the Japanese become too strong to risk AKs in the DEI, I have had good sucess sending subs in on transport missions to pull out cadre units. Sure, a sub can't carry much, but it prevents the entire unit from being destroyed once you get over-run.

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

Thanks Herr Kaleun. Wimmen and war. They go together like butter and toast. [:D]

Rup...do you usually try to send some APs north and pull those Australian units out of Rabaul?

I normally do, although i do waite until i have got some of the oz/nz surface units to gether to give support, then pick them up and place them in PM.

and send lark and gull force to timor

Just reading the suggestions, and it's interesting to compare the differences between an AI game a PBEM game.

I like the idea of fortifying Timor. And I'm sure that's a grand idea for an AI game (and useful in PBEM, just not first priority).

But not to sound condescending, but PBEM is much different.

But in PBEM you need to be able to move Gull/Lark/Sparrow to garrison any base that you don't want Japan to just walk into. Timor is less of a priorty for them, because it already has a marginal garrison, and it will take a PBEM opponent 6 - 8 weeks before they even have a remote chance of invading it (you'd have to clear a path thru Kendari/Menado/Ambonia et al, or you'll get clobbered by RDAF and RAAF).

-F-

Send those Dutch 2K APs to Singapore to pull stuff out of there. Send them in one at a time and pull out whatever you want, I like the base forces, HQs and Aussie units in particular. Send 7K AKs and 9K TKs to Palembang and pull resources, again one at a time. I usually send one of the Dutch torpedo plane sections there with a 6 plane fighter section to protect this pullout. I put Dutch bombers and fighters with some patrol planes in Brunei and that other base on the N shore and they take potshots at the IJN as they transit the area. Use those 2 Dutch minelaying subs to mine places where the IJN is landing or reinforcing then set them back to patrol.

I spread out the air units in the PI to utilize the supply and make it harder for the Japs to target. P26 unit to the place just S of Aparri. The other useless fighter group to the base NW of Legaspi. B17 bomb Group to San Marcellino. I do not evacuate everything at once from Manila as the baby KB may be around and that will just tear you up. Better to be under the fighter cover already in Manila. All subs get sortied usually northwards but sometimes will try to hit baby KB if they make a dash thru the PI too.

In China I will sometimes be a bit more aggressive and do limited attacks against the Japanese to spoil and attrit.

For all those lone wolves out there like the 3 DDs in HK and the MSW at whatever that isolated base in the middle of the Japanese empire is, send them full speed SW manual control as far as possible as soon as possible. DDs can run to Batavia or Sorebaja. MSW goes to Oz.

In Malaya, I fight it out as much as possible.

In the central and south pacific, you have a few scattered base forces that can be moved from those overlapping bases (south pacific) to better places so some APs that are in the area anyway get to pull some duty early on.

PH/Midway. Create the PT boat TF in case KB wants to linger. Sortie all the subs. Disperse the PBYs to other bases not damaged. Move the long range Patrol squadron out of San Diego in the Hawaiian Islands. I tend to send my carriers early on to strike at Makin which is a usual target because of the port and maybe Wake to catch the invaders before retiring.....use full speed and for both carrier TFs and you can catch both invasions. Load the buffalo squadron in San Diefo on Sara and send Sara and friends towards Hawaiian islands.

For CAs, BBs, and CLs.....I make sure all there search aircraft are on 100% naval search to start. They gain experience quickly and can then transition to ASW patrol. Leaving them at 100% search does not tend to create any problems in ops losses. For ASW TFs around PH, 4 or 5 ship TFs work well using one DD of each class available and maybe a DMS. Again, wait until KB is gone or you pay a price. March the 2nd Mardiv to Los Angeles while moving all the APs from San Fran to LA. They will arrive about the same time and can load up. Use the scattered APs at the ports to move out some of the LCUs on the West Coast forward.

Just my input.....

What I can add (because it's already evidenced in my PBEM games)

Use the Dutch AF, and the remnants of Sing RAF. It doesn't take them long to build up experience. You can make IJN pay a hefty tool in DEI. I move the Vildabeasts and Stringbags in DEI, because it -should- be a while before you start seeing enemy ships in the Indian ocea (so you might as well keep them in DEI to give them something to shoot at, and there's plenty of targets). I also load up the Vildabeast sqdn in India and truck it DEI. More the merrier. I also keep the Blen 1s in DEI. They AFs in Burma are only lvl-2, so Blens won't do as well from them. Which means your Blens are constrained to your AFs near India, which means you need range, which Blen-1s don't have. The Blen 1s can do well bombing stuff in DEI, where the ranges are shorter. The 250lb bombs of your Blens and Martin139s will only bounce off IJN CLs and above, but there should be plenty of shipping for them to practice their skills on. MOVE YOUR AIRCRAFT AROUND. It won't take long to p1ss off IJN. He'll start bombing/shelling your AFs. MOVE YOUR AIRCRAFT AROUND. Fortunately, you have lots of AFs that you can operate out of. MOVE YOUR AIRCRAFT AROUND. And don't superload an AF, it only makes a really tempting target. Keep those patrols up. It only takes a lvl(1) af with 200 supplies to run your PBY/Cats/Do25s for a week. You can't bomb/intercept/torpedo what you can't see. It also avoids nasty surprises.

DEI is heaven for PT boats. Both because they do wonderfully there, and because they die there (*grin*). DEI is your guarenteed battlefield at the start. You've got a bunch of little bases with 200 fuel that are only 3 or 4 hexes apart. 200 fuel is nothing for a CL, but enough to run PTs for a week. Use your PTs prolifically. Natrually, if you see a convoy that is escorted, stay the he11 the away from it. But if you see AK/APs puttering around, send in your PTs. These boys really shine there. Use little TFs of about 4 PTs. And jump from base to base, waiting for you targets.

-F-

Load tankers with oil and pair them with AKs with supply or fuel and send them to Sydney via Suva. This will avoid the Jap air units. Load everyone else up with supplies and fuel and send them the same way. Every LCU and LBA unit that can be loaded should also be sent to OZ via this route. Order several AS/AE/AR/ MLE units. Don’t worry about ADs.

Just my two cents concerning logistics:

Rather than the large convoy approach I prefer to create a supply pipeline from the west coast to ultimately Australia. I have short convoys from West Coast->Pearl Harbor; Pearl Harbor->Canton Island; Canton Island->Suva; Suva->Brisbane.

These serve as supply depots and will move as my "front" moves. This allows me to have supply spread along my fronts and also instead of having a LOT of supplies arrive in Australia every other month or so I have a steady stream of supplies arriving every other week. I have two 10k and two 5 TK convoys between each depot (except west coast which are all 10 ship convoys). One is unloading in the destination port while the other is loading in the source port.

Also has the advantage that is the Japanese manage to destroy one of my convoys the supplies will be replaced quicker than if they have to come all the way from the west coast.

I also hoarded and moved AK and TK ships from India to the West Coast and keep a reserve of ships in my ports to use as replacements for convoy ships needing repairs, special convoys for extra supplies, to move troops or for use in invasions. I may only "actively" have 25% of my cargo ships moving supplies but I've accumulated 999,999 supplies and fuel at Pearl Harbor and Lahaina and close to that amount in Canton Island and Luganville.

ORIGINAL: janushm





pow and repulse dash certainly is a must...they sunk kongo and jap DD in a shell logging fest with the loss of 1 cl and 1 dd.

Hm i'd transfer them to southern DEI or use them early to intercept shipping there, out of the range of the japanese LBA. Then later they can be transferred to OZ. They are also useful as a 'fleet in being' as just the fact that they are around forces the japanese player to limit his invasions to LBA range or escort them heavily

I concur with String - POW and Repulse are too valuable to risk for potentially limited gains early on. At the very least, the fleet in being concept forces the Japanese player to cover all invasions with heavy surface support - this means he can't expand as fast, plus those surface forces suck a ton of fuel - something the Japanese don't have a lot of. I say keep Force Z hidden so the Japanese player is guessing... If you get a chance to nail a poorly escorted invasion, do it! But play it safe...

I've only played the AI, with me as the allies.

I've never had luck pulling much out of Malaya/Singapore (or Northern Sumatra, for that matter) with AK/AP's, because the LBA's in Saigon, then later Singapore, turn my ships into razor blades.
I use, at most, 4-ship TF's, hoping that the small TF size will help them escape notice. No joy. I've tried LRCAP from brit cv's (3CV, 1CVL), but the Jap LBA strike overwhelms the CAP.
How do you do it?

There's 2 fast APs in Singapore at start... Use them to load up one of the Aussie BDEs - I usually LRCAP the TF or else move the BDE to Singapore. Usually the Japanese player is trying to kill airfields, so you can often sneak this TF out - the Nells and Betties won't attack if there is heavy CAP and they don't have escort.

A lot of people save a small contingent from the units using subs - once Singapore falls and the main body of those units is destroyed, the small contingent will begin to rebuild to original strength. Moved to India, these can be invaluable. Some people consider it gamey though...

Another option is to use transport aircraft to fly the units to a slightly safer location and then move the troops from there. This is the least efficient method though.

Decent list but I would question the need of sending Chinese units to Hanoi. Once a Chinese unit enters Indochina, a Vietnamese militia type is created. Additionally, you get one for every Chinese unit that enters up to a max of 4.

While they're not great units, they function OK on defense and will start in the cities you're trying to attack. They will be superior to the Chinese units as well.

In Australis, I would not move much into the Townswille area, this would allow easy time to any landing force in the south. Instead, concentrate on defending the key bases. In the north you only need aviation support and some delaying force.
Level 4 airfields are good enough no need to improve, better to spend supplies on fortyfing and maybe expanding the Brisbane port.