Matrix Games Forums

I have noticed a disturbing trend in save games that I get.

Curious just how many folks playing Japan ignore the Garrison Requirements in the China area and constantly run with locations in the red freeing up troops for action that really should be busy baby sitting.

It is possible that the penalty imposed is not severe enough to deter this type of play.

Hi, I think when a base gets above 50 percent damage it should give birth to a Chinese Corps and revert to Chinese control.

I try and meet garrison req at all times, but a couple of the bases that are size 1 airbases with nothing else I will empty out and maybe someday ship a NLF to it for garrison duty.

I think I have a total of 4 bases in China that I do not really worry about garrisons for. They will get one when I get around to it. This is at game start. All others will have a garrison of at least 90% after turn 3.

I agree that garrison requirements should be met with 50% or more. If the required garrison is not met by 50% or more for 5 straight turns, then there should be a 25% chance of the base going to Chinese control and a militia division created.

Kind of like what occurs if the Allies cross near Hanoi.

I think the penalty is severe enough ... I didn't have a clue in my first game ... abandoned the [map] south coast ... lost all my supply and air .... I meet garrisons at [almost] all times ... and spend planning cycles to shuttle people around as necessary to sustain them. You can go down a little for a little while with no considerable effect ... but otherwise you will lose your supply and installations ... and for me that is enough.

All my chinese bases have a garrison fulfilling the requirements.

Any rule about understrength garrisons and switching the base (which I generally support) should not kick in not before 1/1/42. This leaves some time to ship in external forces, filling up base forces a.s.o.

Edit: Helpful would be a message about garrisons under strength.

You don't really expect the fanboys to answer this truthfully, do you Mr Frag?[:D]

They can smell a trap just like anyone else.

Well, maybe some of them will.[;)]

You don't really expect the fanboys to answer this truthfully, do you Mr Frag?

I assume we are all adults here and will reply in the interests of the game. Remember that I do look at your saves. Obviously I have seen a fairly high rate or I would not even be polling. Some of it may just be based on new players not understanding the rule.

Always remember that the very next game you play might just be against someone using the tactic that you thought wasn't worthy of reporting. What goes around comes back [;)]

I ignore the places where there is no resource, industry or oil - this just a few bases. All the other places I garrison.

The problem is, it is very hard to meet the garrison requirements. Often when there is a garrison requirement of 10, you have to leave there 50, because you do not have a smaller unit. If the req. is 150, you often end up leaving there 250, because there is just no unit with 150 AV.

Air transport should be allowed to bases belonging to the same HQ. This would make it easier to meet the requirements without wasting a lot of units all over the place.

I think the devs should concentrate on fixing the errors, if some people are bothered by this garrison thing, just play with a house rule.

I ignore the places where there is no resource, industry or oil - this just a few bases. All the other places I garrison.

Same here. I don't give a flying rats ass if some base that has absolutely no significance to my situation is on the red.

Same for me. I don´t unterstand why I should garrison ALL bases! I generally garrison bases where are HI, oil or ressources. But there´s no reason why I should garrison ALL bases!

Hi Here is a reason why you should garrision bases.
Because the population does not like you and your supply moves through the hex.
Because if you don't garrison a city the population will rise and take it away from you.
I garrison my bases. It takes me around 30 days because I do reshuffle units. (there are several that have to move to a larger base to absorb replacements before moving back.
I'd say I "over" garrsion bases. I consider the required strength to be the lowest that will maintain order. I'm not a player who calculates down to the last squad the exact size unit required to meet the rule. If it says 10 I send 50. If it says 100 I send 300.
Of course if the Chinese press me I have a reserve of fresh units to draw on. I don't like units less then 75 percent working TOE to be in the front.

But then I'm not really out to win the war in China. I think the Chinese should have an unlimited manpower pool to draw from (limited only by supply) Also Chinese units should not consume supply except to attack or defend. Their supply requirments are so much lower then other nations as to be in game terms none existent.

I pull the troops as I need them and haven't had a problem. I don't normally take the troops out of China until conquered as I use them for offensive operations there. I also take units out of Manchuria (but staying within the req'd limit) and from Indochina/Burma theaters for additional ofensive firepower.

In the 3 games I have played as the Jap vs the AI, I have conquered ALL of China by Jul/Aug 42. This allows me to take these troops and move them to other theaters. I try to leave an engineer/base force unit in any city that has production or resources. I also leave just enough troops to cover any areas where the remaining Chinese forces are located. I don't worry about the Chinese forces after that because without supply, they die.

I'm not normally a fan of artifical limitations on troop strengths. I would, however, support the possibility of a city reverting to Chinese control if there weren't sufficient forces in OR NEAR (1 hex) it, especially in those areas where the communist insurgency was active.

Chez

reading this and looking into current games I play againt the AI, I'd say the game needs a major overhaul. It is simply PLAIN unrealistic if you dont garrison proper. Like Mogami said, they dont like you. figure out what would happen after the gemran invasion in france/russia/norway in WWII and imagine that the germans left them alone and didnt garrision them. [8|]

the game needs an improvement here regardless which way is choosen.

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I think when a base gets above 50 percent damage it should give birth to a Chinese Corps and revert to Chinese control.

Agree completely (I've made similar suggestions myself).

If you make the penalties for not garrisoning stricter, that would further up the importance of getting the AI to properly garrison bases (when China is under computer control). It's basically willing to empty critical bases (like Tsientin or the other T... port with the oil, etc. on the coast) on the first few days of the campaign. I had posted that on the support forum but no-one seemed to care much... It's not that I expect the computer controlled zones to do much constructive (it's China, and my opponent in that game requested that we both put it on computer control so it wasn't in the picture), but when I look after a month and find my resources/HI trashed with 100K+ supply required to fix it...

Personally, I pull the garrisons from two or maybe three small cities that don't have much to worry about, but I would readily accept a house rule from my opponent that says I have to maintain full garrisons at all time.

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Kind of like what occurs if the Allies cross near Hanoi.

Speaking of Hanoi border crossing, has anyone got more than 2 militia divisions there? I've had at least 3 border crossings with two or more chinese units, then a few movings inside Thailand, and all I got were two militia divisions (one in Hanoi and other in the base next to Hanoi).
Manual says there should be 4 militia divisions, but I've checked everywhere, all the bases, sorted list of all land based units, and those two more are nowhere to be found.

I also think the garrison Penalty is not harsh enough initally it should be higher for most bases and if not met a random chance plus the % of how far under the requirements you are the base changes and a chinese unit is formed. With the Garrison requirement going dow each year.

I always garrison except for emergency or occasionally I might let the requirment lapse for a day or two when units are in transit at small bases. I don't think added penalties are needed.

At large bases you will pay dearly if you don't meet requirements as you will lose industry that takes 1000 sp per point to repair. At the smaller bases the current penalties are small but then you are only freeing up a base force or small unit by ignoring the requirements. The penalty is significant as if you evacuate the hex you will eventually have 100% damage to all facilities and every time a unit moves through the hex you will burn supply repairing it.

Its not a huge penalty but then you aren't getting that much added force. The only real reason I see to do it is if you are to lazy to do the work of rearranging your forces.

I play allied and am new but...

In a game people will only react to things that really hurt them. The Japanese military garrisoned Chinese cities because losing control meant losing face and that would really hurt them. In our games this factor does not exist. The only thing that really hurts the Japanese player is units because units can move around to places that they can cause harm.

I read about China having real problems in this game. Personally one of my games has quiet China as a house rule and in the other I am doing reasonabley well. We are all new though so it may not count for much. But in the other games if the Japanese can abandon garrisons to go kill Chinese units they probabley will.

I will admit to speculating but I suspect that for a Japanese player its pretty smart to strip garrisons, kill the Chinese army and then put the garrisons back later. After all if the cities go red but that is all that happens you can easily take them back once the Chinese are gone. If the red damage equals lost production this will do little to deter the Japanese because the game is so long. Its much more satisfying to kill the Chinese now and worry about the 2006 supply situation in 18 (real world) months than it is to worry about supply now and act with restraint in China.

Also if a Japanese player is looking for auto victory stripping the garrisons may make even more sense. Stip them now, get those Chinese cities and then garrison again or you lose your shot at auto victory.

I am not certain that popping up a Chinese unit is the right answer but anything that does not create units will be a much weaker detterent.

Tom

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi Here is a reason why you should garrision bases.
Because the population does not like you and your supply moves through the hex.
Because if you don't garrison a city the population will rise and take it away from you.
I garrison my bases. It takes me around 30 days because I do reshuffle units. (there are several that have to move to a larger base to absorb replacements before moving back.
I'd say I "over" garrsion bases. I consider the required strength to be the lowest that will maintain order. I'm not a player who calculates down to the last squad the exact size unit required to meet the rule. If it says 10 I send 50. If it says 100 I send 300.
Of course if the Chinese press me I have a reserve of fresh units to draw on. I don't like units less then 75 percent working TOE to be in the front.

But then I'm not really out to win the war in China. I think the Chinese should have an unlimited manpower pool to draw from (limited only by supply) Also Chinese units should not consume supply except to attack or defend. Their supply requirments are so much lower then other nations as to be in game terms none existent.

There´s absolutely no reason to garrison all the cities which require a garrison. I don´t think you need that many DIVISIONS to garrison a few cities. Look at France, I don´t think the German placed a division in the 10 biggest cities of the occupied territory.