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Is there any chance that milo is going to release the .def files for the existing ships? I ask because it would be very helpful to have the original ship's specs handy when designing ships that are balanced. For example, I am outlining a Traveller-based mod, part of the premise of the Traveller Universe is that ships come in all shapes and sizes, and if someone had the cash, they could commission a ship built to their specifications. Now, as it stands, there isn't an easy custom ship builder, but in the meantime, it would be helpful to have a set of guidelines to design to. That way, for instance, designers could build ships independently that could conform to the same rules and compete with the base assumption that everyone is playing by the same rules.

Traveller based mod is a fantastic idea (i nooddled around with it a while ago)
Balancing it with the exsisting ships would be hard(maybe impossible because milo's ships dont feel very traveller like imho)

It "should" be fairly easy to use the exsiting classic Traveller HG build rules tho
Main issues are
Fuel in SS has no mass (and rather hard to guess comsumption rates)
No Sandcasters (I haven,t figured out away to fudge them anyway)
No repulsors
No Nuclear Dampners
Lasers always hit in SS(use bolts i guess)
Armour would be a fudge
Jump Drives would be a fudge
Computer base Fire DMs (no idea how you would do these)
Meason guns would be hard to do
Big ships with massive batterys of guns would have to be fudged
The ranges wouldnt be Traveller ranges, SS (especailly the AI)gets a bit odd at ranges over 200kms (be pretty boring too, u would never see your target)

If you werent using HG, but FF&S it gets harder[:(]
Sensors model in SS is pretty weak for a FF&S type game
If you get this off the ground I would love to help with models if u need any

[&o]

I salute taht concept!!!

I think it is a wonderfull idea to have multiple ships with armour, weapons and performance balanced with stock SS ships, independentlly of how they look like.[;)]
This would add endles possibilities.. imagine a Star Destroyer meeting the BB Yamato... or a Klingon D-7 cruiser engaging an Alliance Devastator.
It could be lots of fun, not to mention all the depht added by the custom models made built by corporations or millionnaires.[:D]

=S=

That would be tricky...to balance the stuff to a certain level, especially since we know how Star Trek ships seem to be indestructible to certain weapons systems, just remember the Enterprise D could blow up fusion powered, laser armed vessels like a Borg Cube could Runabouts, just remember Fission Bombs (Nukes) use approximately 1% of the reaction mass, Fusion Bombs (Proton Torps) use 10% and Matter/Antimatter Bombs (Photons Torps) use 100%, giving them quite some punch...there would be some intense scaling neccessary to get it all work, especially since for example Macross Reflex Guns are....well quite damaging

yeah balancing the weapons ships stats etc between the various genres would be a nightmare, as mrd said the weapons on the star trek side of things have a real boom to them oh and you forgot quantum torps wich are more destructive than the Photon type

nice idea but it would be a real headace to get to work, so much so i dont realy thing the ships would resemble what they should do stat wise.

and about macross yummm.......
*goes of to watch again*

ORIGINAL: LeonH

you forgot quantum torps wich are more destructive than the Photon type

No, I didn't.
The quantums are not called Phot Mark Q2 for no reason...they are simply photons enhanced by a zero point vacuum detonation something to increase the detonation yield of the matter/antimatter reaction beyond the normally achievable limits using the presently available amound of reaction mass... try to comprehend that ten times in a row without getting a headache[;)]

Way to hijack a thread....[;)]

I thought this was about Traveller
not cheesy hollywood movies[:'(]

[:D][:D]

As I recall Star Trek was originally supposed to be like a "waggon train to the stars"...which means some sort of travellers between the stars...besides blame Diabolico[;)]
He came up with the idea of balancing ships of diffenrent universes, right?[:D]
We are just using our freedon of speech to state our opinion about that[8D]

No repulsors

I konw that pain - Trade Federation AAT...

Lasers always hit in SS(use bolts i guess)

There is parameter that makes random spread shots, sorry, but I don't remember what.

Meason guns would be hard to do

Who needs meason guns !? [;)]

Well, p10ppy, I had planned to make 2 versions of each ship, one that was balanced against SS stock, and one that followed Traveller rules (or at least G:Traveller rules). As Traveller is a pen and paper RPG, the rules for ship design are written down and easy to implement (well, at least in theory), the problem is that up to this point all I can do is guess at what is balanced in SS stock. For instance, if a battery generates 10e3 units of power what size should it be, and how much should it add to the mass. Furthermore, how much does it "cost" to implement, how much of an advantage does it give? These are the types of questions that having the .def files for stock ships and weapons could answer.

Intresting[:)]

I believe that Milo has said he will not release his ship defs (not my place to speak for him tho)

I'm not familiar with GURPS Traveller, is it like CT,MT,TTNE or BL[;)]?
giggle

And I still think reverse engineering stock ships made with (as far as I know) no consideration for component weight or volume to be tricky at best
(tho a set of construction rules for moding ships for online play would be a wonderful thing)[:D]

I spose if u use stock SS weapons and develop some component mass per ship mass rules
(fitting SS stock ships into this tho....[&:])

IMHO a full mod (cut down traveller perhaps[;)]) would be less work (construction rules are all ready there [:D]

Well, maybe we can convince him to divulge the ratios, if not the whole def files...

G:T is set at the same time as CT, but SJ Games (publishers of GURPS) are currently releasing a new version set in the time period before and during the rise of the Ramshakle empire.

Realistically speaking, all components on the stock ships already have a size, and the vessel itself has a total mass. With at least 4 ships to work with for each side, it shouldn't be too hard to generate best fit factors for a mass-to-volume ratio and Attribute-to-volume ratio.

I know the straight Traveller mod ships would be easier, but Traveller also has different concepts for jumping and weapons (Sandcasters anyone?) so I was hoping to get the version of the ships balanced against stock first, while milo continued to work his magic on the engine to make it more flexible for a true Traveller mod.

That's what I ment! You could use grasers intead of phasers.. X-Rays instead of disruptors, etc... making cruisers as strong as SS cruisers, etc... I think the extra work would be worth it... here's my 2 cents theory!!![:D]

=S=

[:D]Diabolico we are NOT talking about Star Dreck[;)]
Google Traveller

Realistically speaking, all components on the stock ships already have a size, and the vessel itself has a total mass.

I think u will find size is just for hit determination purposes (no relation to actual size) [:(]

Work with me here, it's a start [:)]

All you need to do is take the total weight for the components, and the total volume, create a sturcture "component" to represent how tough the ship is, which adds mass and voila, ship building in a 20 minutes or less. Pen-and-paper ships can usually summaries the complete rules in a chapter or two (or a book or three for Gurps [:D]) but electronically, the design program isn't too complex and is easily made with a little OO coding.

[:D] Am trying [;)]
I did start on this about a year ago for SS (but not reverse engineering Milos ships to match[&:])

check out HG linky

It may be more simple than Gurps Trav

Also Battlespace/Aerotech2 bears considering as a contruction system (most of the componants are easyer to do in SS imho + i already have done a few modelss for that universe)[:'(]

Will try to be more positive [:)]

Alright, I've talked enough about the benefits of a set of construction rules, so here is a overview of what a rules set should look like. In keeping with the general notation of high "mob-iblity" of SS, the safest bet for implement construction rules would to be as .def file that ships being imported into a particular mod "enviroment" would have to pass. This system assumes a "Cost" value that can be used to create ship of ROUGHLY equal capablity.

Example rules.def file
------------------------

CLASS: shipClasses, List of classes the rules apply to, for systems where fighters are advantaged or disadvantaged over starships, etc.

REQUIRED: { List of systems required for the mod.
systemName: { Name of the System
baseVolume: value, Base volume for the system.
AttrnVOLUMERATIO: value, Ratio of the nth atrribute of the system's to the volume of the system
VOLUMETOMASSRATIO: value, Ratio of the volume of the system's to the mass of the system
COSTTOMASSRATIO: value, Ratio of the cost of the system's to the mass of the system
}
repeat for each system
}
OPTIONAL: { Other systems allowed in the mod.
As per REQUIRED
}

HULLINTTOMASSRATIO: value, Assume that the basic hull integrity = HULLINTTOMASS * Mass.
INCREASEDHPMASS: value, Percent increase in Mass per percent increase in Hull Intergrity.
INCREASEDHPCOST: value, Percent increase in Cost per percent increase in Hull Intergrity.

COSTTODECREASEMASS: value, Cost to reduce mass by one unit
COSTTOINCREASEMASS: value, Cost reduction to increase mass by one unit
COSTTODECREASEVOLUME: value, Cost to reduce volume by one unit
COSTTOINCREASEVOLUME: value, Cost reduction to increase volume by one unit

And so on
-----------------------

In the end the ship is the ship will have a mass, volume, and cost. The mass is already factored into the ship's handling. The volume would be handy for ACS, and should probable be used to determine if the model is approirate (i.e. no massive ships the size of fighters). And the cost would be used to balance opposing sides of a battle.

This is all just a rehash of GURPS and Mekton (a pair of pen and paper RPGs) with a little Jovian Chronicles and Traveller on the side, but the idea should be sound as we can figure out what the numbers should be.

Just noticed that I have the Megatraveller box for RPG on my Boardgame/RPG shelve.
Included are the rules and manual for ship construction/combat.
If you guys need anything just ask...
Geesh! Forgot I even had that![:'(]

=S=

its amazing what does go missing on theos shelvs and under the bed..... some times it scares me to even think of looking at the old stuff. [:)]

its amazing what does go missing on theos shelvs and under the bed..... some times it scares me to even think of looking at the old stuff.

Indeed! Almost like old Ghosts of the past... as a matter a fact I have the rules for Battletech for fighter, Dropship and Old starleague Capital ship combat.
I also have Imperium from GDW wich is inspired on the Megatraveller universe as well. However the stats for the capital ships are very general like a factor for beam weapons, another for missile weapons, another for shield value, another for hull and finnaly, another for the maintenance cost.
Please post here if you need more info on any of those board/rpg games I have.

=S=