Matrix Games Forums

Looking at the upgrade paths of several Japanese planes,
some things seems bizarre to me [X(] :

- A6M5 upgrade to A6M8 in 6 / 1945
- A6M8 upgrade to A7M2 in 7 / 1945

Why these models are so close ?
Does the factories upgrade also ? If yes, they will switch automatically after 1 month,
so you will not produce more than a handful of A6M8…
And what happens if the A7M arrives one month earlier thanks to R&D ?


Another curious one :

- KI46 III Kai Dinah upgrade to Ki 102 Randy in 7 / 1944
- KI46 III Kai Dinah model arrives only in 10 / 44

How the final upgrade of a model could be older than the model itself ?


And also :

- The J2N Jack model is produced as soon as 3 / 1943
- Meanwhile, the first J2N unit arrives in 10 or 11 / 1943

- On the other hand: The first J1N1-S Irving unit arrives as soon as 4 or 5 / 1943
- But you can produce this plane only in 9 / 1943
(thus the first J1N1-S unit stays in “organizing” status for several months [:(] )

What are the explanations about these curious upgrades ? Are they simple bugs ?

BUMP ! [:o]

Any idea ?

I guess this reflects those pre-production groups which Japanise liked to deploy. Like they had some D4Y groups in 04/1942, Tojo sq in Canton in 12/1941 (experimetal sq for evaluation purposes).

Regarding A6m8 and A7M2 - just read some stuff on internet. A6m8 was a development of A6m2. Parallel to that they tried to make something completely new - A7m2. It took too long to develop so they ended up getting both at the same time and way too late for any use.

WitP doesnt simulate operational qulities of aircrafts. D4Y for example in 04/1942 is way diffrent from D4Y 10/42 and was used as scout plane. Same thing with other Jap fighters - they looked good on the paper, but poor manufacturing standarts and service kept many of "good" aircraft on the ground.

Russian fighters BTW looked very good on paper too. La5FN supplied to front line had top speed 50 km/h less than test aircraft (engine could operate only on 80% of output without failing and poor paint finish reduced speed by 26 km/h alone). If you check russian aircrafts in WitP though, you'll notice that they look like a very decent ones.

I guess this reflects those pre-production groups which Japanise liked to deploy. Like they had some D4Y groups in 04/1942, Tojo sq in Canton in 12/1941

Yes, I understand your views, but that enlights only a part of my questions.

I will try to explain it in acceptable english.

I was only speaking about the ingame chronology of planes availability, not the real disponibility of planes IRL.

I take an example :
The game gives an availability date for J1N1-S Irving (Night fighter) at 9 / 1943,
so you won't produce any of this plane before September, 1st (unless you invest massively in hazardous R&D).
On the other hand, the Intel Panel (reinforcements list) shows the first J1N1 unit arriving
at 4 or 5 / September (can't remember : I am at work).
But You don't have ANY plane to fill this unit when it arrives ! So the unit stays "organizing" off-map during several monthes !
What it is the interest for the game to give a unit without any planes several monthes before the models availability ? You can't even train an experimental unit [:(]

The situation is symetrically opposed for the J2M Jack :
WITP gives you the production as soon as 3 / 43, while the first J2M unit arrives 11 / 43.
At this date, you have accumulated a lot of unused planes in the pool, or stopped the production to save HI.
It is stupid !

My opinion is that WITP has maybe inversed the production / upgrade chronology of these 2 planes
(J1N1-S vs J2M), and thus, it is probably a bug to correct.

Hi, OK I was confused at first. Your saying there is an OB error.
Pry? Hello Pry.........

OH you do know that airgroups will check to see if their model is in the pool and if not they will arrive with whatever model is in the pool and upgrade when they can.

And after 1.50 it won't matter since the player will control aircraft types assigned to groups.

OH you do know that airgroups will check to see if their model is in the pool and if not they will arrive with whatever model is in the pool and upgrade when they can

Yes, I know it,
but in the cases I explained upper, it will not work :
J1N1-S is the first model of the units flying it, and will be replaced by C6M1-S one year later,
thus, no J1N1-S planes in the pool = impossibility for the reinforcement unit to arrive
(giving an "organizing" status for about 6 months).
Problem is of course inversed for J2M : planes in the pool, but no units able to use them.

But you are right, it is maybe an OOB error (or I am still missing some hidden logic ?)

Hi, IJN groups will take any IJN fighter in production and in the pool in enough numbers.
IJA groups will take any IJA fighter in the production and in the pool in enough numbers.

Then they will still upgrade to proper AC when it is in production and in the pool in enough numbers.

[&o] Greeaat !

That's a good news...
And I hope this will help to solve these problems.

Hum... Well..
It is still not sure considering yhe J1N1-S (first of all Jap navy NightFighters)

But now I can't wait for the 1.5 !!!