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WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:20 pm
by mc3744
First of all let me say that the closest I've been to a real war is in books and movies (plus the officer accademy [;)])
I wanted to hear from you about 'my chaos theory' as a good PBEM friend of mine calls it.
We all know that in WitP there are bugs, some random inexplicable events, plus the stupid human mistakes of forgetting, for example, a little setting like reaction on and loosing therefore just a couple of irrelevant CVs!
Now my theory is that, unwillingly, through those events, WitP simulates the sad reality of: 'shit happens'.
Whatever is hard coded has some difficulty to recreate the human behaviour, especially in war: stupidity, cowardice, egotism, heroism, ...
All those little things that, in a real war, can screw an excellent plan.
If WitP was bugs free an excellent plan would almost always bring excellent results. However, thanks to the various bugs, you can find your wonderful offensive stopped because your troops just took the wrong way (did I mention something familiar? [;)]) and went picnicking in the forest. That's what could happen (almost [:D]) in reality, but not in a 'normal' PC game.
The beauty of it is in the fact that, given the lenght of the game, it will probably even itself over time. Creating a good mix of good and bad luck for both sides.
Now tell me if I'm gone crazy waiting for my next PBEM turn [:)] of if any of you believes that it makes some sense.
Cheers
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:06 pm
by Onime No Kyo
ORIGINAL: mc3744
First of all let me say that the closest I've been to a real war is in books and movies (plus the officer accademy [;)])
I wanted to hear from you about 'my chaos theory' as a good PBEM friend of mine calls it.
We all know that in WitP there are bugs, some random inexplicable events, plus the stupid human mistakes of forgetting, for example, a little setting like reaction on and loosing therefore just a couple of irrelevant CVs!
Now my theory is that, unwillingly, through those events, WitP simulates the sad reality of: 'shit happens'.
Whatever is hard coded has some difficulty to recreate the human behaviour, especially in war: stupidity, cowardice, egotism, heroism, ...
All those little things that, in a real war, can screw an excellent plan.
If WitP was bugs free an excellent plan would almost always bring excellent results. However, thanks to the various bugs, you can find your wonderful offensive stopped because your troops just took the wrong way (did I mention something familiar? [;)]) and went picnicking in the forest. That's what could happen (almost [:D]) in reality, but not in a 'normal' PC game.
The beauty of it is in the fact that, given the lenght of the game, it will probably even itself over time. Creating a good mix of good and bad luck for both sides.
Now tell me if I'm gone crazy waiting for my next PBEM turn [:)] of if any of you believes that it makes some sense.
Cheers
I agree with you in principle. I am, however, opposed to PARTICULARLY stupid stuff. I also have a bad aftertaste from thing that I know are bugs and not just a random element.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:11 pm
by mc3744
Yep, despite my wonderful theory [8D] the aftertaste remains.
Still the theory helps me washing it away [:)]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:20 pm
by Onime No Kyo
I dont flip out over too many things in WitP. I just tend to roll with it, although I have been known to get "emotional" over other games. I dont see anything about the game as it is now as a "gamebreaker". Now, there was a game called Fighting Steel IIRC, that CTDd ever 30 minutes. There was a gamebreaker. Anything short of that I can live with.
I think that the game should absolutely continue to be improved, but I also think that many people on this forum greatly overreact.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:49 pm
by Lonewolfpj
I think you really make a good point. The bugs draw frustration which is important to drawing out emotions that you might get as a comander. I think what they need to do is form more built in X factors that can cause weird thing's to happen like only a few men standing up to a large army or esorts missing there assinmets. Becuse this happens in real war but to have bugs like system lock up are just annoying
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:59 pm
by mogami
Hi, I think one of the largest weakness found in WITP is the abilty to execute operations in near flawless manner. (Thank goodness I am unable to do this)
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:08 am
by pasternakski
You're nuts, the pair of ya.
It's one thing when a game sets out to build in some of the command frustration the real people felt (and WitP does attempt this). It's another thing entirely when the game is just f#cked up in certain unintended ways.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:22 am
by Dutchgy2000
ORIGINAL: pasternakski
You're nuts, the pair of ya.
It's one thing when a game sets out to build in some of the command frustration the real people felt (and WitP does attempt this). It's another thing entirely when the game is just f#cked up in certain unintended ways.
Sounds like a definition of war to me.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:29 am
by pasternakski
It's a good definition of war. It is not a definition of a good wargame.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:33 am
by von Murrin
ORIGINAL: Dutchgy2000
ORIGINAL: pasternakski
You're nuts, the pair of ya.
It's one thing when a game sets out to build in some of the command frustration the real people felt (and WitP does attempt this). It's another thing entirely when the game is just f#cked up in certain unintended ways.
Sounds like a definition of war to me.
Having McCain beamed off the Enterprise to the bridge of her fictional interstellar counterpart just before a reenactment of Midway is not war. It is science fiction.[:'(]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:42 am
by Dutchgy2000
ORIGINAL: von Murrin
ORIGINAL: Dutchgy2000
ORIGINAL: pasternakski
You're nuts, the pair of ya.
It's one thing when a game sets out to build in some of the command frustration the real people felt (and WitP does attempt this). It's another thing entirely when the game is just f#cked up in certain unintended ways.
Sounds like a definition of war to me.
Having McCain beamed off the Enterprise to the bridge of her fictional interstellar counterpart just before a reenactment of Midway is not war. It is science fiction.[:'(]
Nope, expecting him to be there for the next 5 years just because you put him there is science fiction. Things happen, even if it´s not war... maybe he fell of the stairs... fell out of bed because of a high wave, bumped his head, or even fell of the ship... lots of times people have to take over when they were not originally designed to do so. Now him appearing on the west coast again after something like that, that would be sience fiction... but then again... with those dissapearing leaders... fat chance of him showing up again.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:52 am
by von Murrin
Which is my point entirely. If he falls down the stairs and bumps his gourd, I want his ass back in CIC within a month.
There is a vast difference between bugs and design. The game has inherent randomness. Having McCain spontaneously combust or deep-sixing the entire theater because a radar-equipped fighter takes off isn't part of the design. Anything attempting to justify such things makes for a poor argument, IMO.[;)]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am
by Dutchgy2000
Yep... but then again, having him in command, loosing 3 carriers in the next battle, and then still keeping him for the next 4 years just because he has ´good stats´ isn´t all that realistic either. Where´s all the random pöliticians screaming for his head and f***** up all the warplans ya had for this guy in the game? [:'(]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:05 am
by von Murrin
If he loses three CV's, he'll be commanding a desk. I'll brook no excuses for my failures.[:D]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:07 am
by Tankerace
The buck stops.... over there.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:28 am
by von Murrin
LOL
That's the spirit![:D]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:40 am
by Dutchgy2000
I never loose CV´s ... i just ´upgrade´ them to really big subs.
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:44 am
by Tankerace
All ships can submerge, only subs can surface [8D]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:19 am
by Dutchgy2000
ORIGINAL: Tankerace
All ships can submerge, only subs can surface [8D]
Maybe you should make that only subs can surface
by themselves, or that would make Oklahoma, California and West-Verginia subs also[8D]
RE: WitP vs. Real War
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:21 am
by Tom Hunter
I don't let the crazyness bother me but I agree that there is a difference between buggy crazyness and realism crazyness.
I find the nutty behavior of the game does even out over time. Both my games have black eyes and broken teeth on both sides and they are only in Feb and March 42