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Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:18 pm
by invernomuto
Hi to all,
I am trying to play the full campaign with Japan.
I have 2 Nell squadrons + Escort in Kwajalein (79,79). On 12/11/1941 I spotted the US carrier TF in (80,79), ONE hex away from my air base. I set my bombers altitude to 8000 ft and escort at 10000 ft. I left the other options unchanged.
Next turn I expected to see my bombers trying to attack the US CV, but nothing happened instead. They do not take off. Fatigue and morale of the units were ok. Any reason why?
Thanks in advance.
Bye
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:27 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: invernomuto
Hi to all,
I am trying to play the full campaign with Japan.
I have 2 Nell squadrons + Escort in Kwajalein (79,79). On 12/11/1941 I spotted the US carrier TF in (80,79), ONE hex away from my air base. I set my bombers altitude to 8000 ft and escort at 10000 ft. I left the other options unchanged.
Next turn I expected to see my bombers trying to attack the US CV, but nothing happened instead. They do not take off. Fatigue and morale of the units were ok. Any reason why?
Thanks in advance.
Bye
Some thoughts that might effect an attack:
What size is your air base at Kwaljalein?
Does in have enough supply?
Are you sure they have a Naval attack option checked?
What is the commander like (competent, incompetent, agressive?)
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:31 pm
by mogami
Hi, Landbased bombers require 1 escorting fighter for every 2 enemy fighters on CAP over target. If the enemy TF has 50 CAP you need 25 escorts. If the TF has 80 CAP you need 40 escorts.
Heavy bombers do not require escorts and bombers on CV will fly without escorts.
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:50 pm
by Apollo11
Hi all,
ORIGINAL: Mogami
Hi, Landbased bombers require 1 escorting fighter for every 2 enemy fighters on CAP over target. If the enemy TF has 50 CAP you need 25 escorts. If the TF has 80 CAP you need 40 escorts.
Heavy bombers do not require escorts and bombers on CV will fly without escorts.
Russell, you should "sticky" this - IMHO this explains 75% of all questions regarding "Why my bombers are not attacking" (the remaining 25% of cases: base too small, no HQ...)! [;)]
Leo "Apollo11"
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:55 pm
by invernomuto
ORIGINAL: Mogami
Hi, Landbased bombers require 1 escorting fighter for every 2 enemy fighters on CAP over target. If the enemy TF has 50 CAP you need 25 escorts. If the TF has 80 CAP you need 40 escorts.
Heavy bombers do not require escorts and bombers on CV will fly without escorts.
I didn't know that. Thank you very much
I come back lurking in the shadows [:D]
Bye
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:29 pm
by ChezDaJez
Hi, Landbased bombers require 1 escorting fighter for every 2 enemy fighters on CAP over target. If the enemy TF has 50 CAP you need 25 escorts. If the TF has 80 CAP you need 40 escorts.
Just curious. Not trying to ruffle feathers but why is this a requirement? An attacker wouldn't know how many enemy A/C were on CAP until he attacked.
Historically, land-based bombers were sent out in many cases without escort. Land-based VMSB-241 attacked the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway without any escort. They had launched just prior to the first Jap raid on Midway and all the US fighters were held back as CAP.
This would mean that all you have to do is place all your fighters on CAP to keep a small landbased unit from attacking. Doesn't seem like the game always follows the rules either. I've seen Dutch Martins attack KB in the SRA with only 3 or 4 Demons as escorts (especially when I'm the IJN).
Chez
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:31 pm
by Tanaka
ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez
Hi, Landbased bombers require 1 escorting fighter for every 2 enemy fighters on CAP over target. If the enemy TF has 50 CAP you need 25 escorts. If the TF has 80 CAP you need 40 escorts.
Just curious. Not trying to ruffle feathers but why is this a requirement? An attacker wouldn't know how many enemy A/C were on CAP until he attacked.
Historically, land-based bombers were sent out in many cases without escort. Land-based VMSB-241 attacked the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway without any escort. They had launched just prior to the first Jap raid on Midway and all the US fighters were held back as CAP.
This would mean that all you have to do is place all your fighters on CAP to keep a small landbased unit from attacking. Doesn't seem like the game always follows the rules either. I've seen Dutch Martins attack KB in the SRA with only 3 or 4 Demons as escorts (especially when I'm the IJN).
Chez
I think this is mostly for the AI's benefit....
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:39 pm
by mogami
Hi, A TF has to be spotted before it can be targeted. The spotting unit also reports the CAP present.
It is a check. If the unit fails it's escort check it aborts. A unit still might attack without escort but low morale and leadership combined with no escort will result in not flying more often then in strike being made.
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:57 am
by ChezDaJez
Hi, A TF has to be spotted before it can be targeted. The spotting unit also reports the CAP present.
Makes sense but it does ignore the fact that most carriers IRL only kept 4-6 fighters overhead for the most part with the rest standing a ready alert on deck. Suppose that the spotter could have counted them too.
Chez
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:59 am
by Sonny
ORIGINAL: Mogami
Hi, Landbased bombers require 1 escorting fighter for every 2 enemy fighters on CAP over target. If the enemy TF has 50 CAP you need 25 escorts. If the TF has 80 CAP you need 40 escorts.
Heavy bombers do not require escorts and bombers on CV will fly without escorts.
What are heavy bombers? Two+ engines? I've seen several suicide attacks by Nells and Hudsons. Thought this had been changed by the airbal thing. Or maybe carrier TFs don't have an airbal? Anyway, 3 unescorted Nells flying into a base with airbal of 400+ just does not seem right.
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:41 am
by mogami
Hi, The Japanese do not have heavy bombers. A heavy bomber is a bomber with four. engines. A meduim bomber has two and a light bomber has one.
Important to realize bombers may attack without escort or with escort that is not enough to meet the requirement. Bombers just have to pass an "escort" check.
If you don't have escort and they fail they won't fly. High morale well rested with aggressive leader bomber groups might fly without escort. (But if the target has a lot of CAP you might regret it)
RE: Nells didn't take off...
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:56 am
by fbastos
low morale and leadership combined with no escort will result in not flying more often then in strike being made.
Do you mean low morale and Inspiration?
From the other messages, leadership seems to influence very little.
F.