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Tactical use of the 50mm Mortar Squad (German, 5cm Granatwerfer 36) in Steel Panthers World at War (Ver. 6.1).

First a little history, there are basically three classes of mortar. The first is the Platoon support weapon usually assigned at Company level in a separate Heavy Weapons Platoon. The second is a Company support weapon usually assigned at Battalion level in a separate Heavy Weapons Company. The third is (what I call) the Battalion support weapon usually assigned at the Regimental level in a separate Artillery/Mortar Battery. These usually consist of the Heavy Mortars 120mm, 4.2 in, etc.

Examples of the first two classes are as follows:

Platoon support weapons:(1)


Country : English
Mortar : 2" Mortar
Range : 500 yards
Weight of projectile : 2.25lb

Country : US
Mortar : 60mm Mortar
Range : 1,985 yards
Weight of projectile : 3lb

Country : Italian
Mortar : 4.5cm Model 35
Range : 550 meters
Weight of projectile : 1lb

Country : German
Mortar : 5cm Granatwerfer 36
Range : 500 meters
Weight of projectile : 2lb


Company support weapons:(1)

Country : English
Mortar : 3" Mortar
Range : 1600 yards
Weight of projectile : 10lb

Country : US
Mortar : 81mm Mortar
Range : 3,290 yards
Weight of projectile : 6.87lb

Country : Italian
Mortar : 81mm Model 35
Range : 4,430 yards
Weight of projectile : 7lb

Country : German
Mortar : 81mm Granatwerfer 34
Range : 2,400 meters
Weight of projectile : 7.07lb

As you can see the Platoon support weapons, with the exception of the US 60 mm Mortar, have a very short range for an indirect fire weapon. The reason appears to be that these mortars were developed in WWI were the battles lines were static and were mainly used for direct fire. The purpose of the mortar is to provide infantry with it's own artillery that can be quickly applied to a target. Mortars were used to suppress strong points such as machine gun nest. In WWII the increase in mobility made many of the Platoon support mortars oboslete. To quote Ian Hogg:

"In the German army the mortar was widely and effectively employed, though since their standard designs appeared to satisfy them there was little attempt to improve the performance. The 5cm Granatwerfer 36 was less and less used as the war became on of movement, and indeed by 1942 it was virtually obsolescent. It was generally replaced with a shortened version of the 81mm, the Short Model 42, popularly called the Stummelwefer (stumpy mortar). This fired the same bombs as the standard weapon to 1,200 yards, weighed only 62 lbs complete, and became a particular favourite with airborne and SS troops."(1)

Please note that Mr. Hogg appears to mix his English and metric units.

In Steel Panthers World at War the 5cm Granatwerfer 36 (5cm LeGW36) has the following characteristics in the OOB:
Weapon: 040
Range: 5cm LeGW36
Weapons Class: 02-Secondary Infantry
Max Range: 44 (11 Hexes)
Max APCR: 0
Accuracy: 8
Warhead: 3
HE Kill: 4
Pen. AP: 0
Pen. HE: 12
Pen. APCR: 0
Pen. HEAT: 0
Weapon Sixe: 2

The 50mm Mortar Squad characteristics in the OOB:
Unit: 133
Class: 80-Light Mortar
Crew: 4
Speed: 8
Avaiable: Jan 1936 to 1949
ROF: 9
Rounds HE: 40
FC 0
Target: 0
RgF: 0


As noted above the 50mm Mortar Squad has limited usage as an indirect fire weapon because of its range. However it does have some tactical use in heavily wooded or built up areas such as cities where its limited range is not a factor since the mortar can be placed close to the target and still be concealed. If you are firing over a line of woods (that can not be seen through) at a MG nest in the next line of wood then it is excellent as a suppression weapon. Placed just behind the crest of a hill supporting a platoon dug in on the other side during low visibility or as a weapon to be used close in to the individual Squads of the Platoon.
Remember that even though the FO can call in fire from the 50mm Mortar Squad it can not shift the fire, only the Company or Platoon commander can shift the point of impact as well as call in the original fire mission.
In direct fire mode the 50mm Mortar Squad suffers from it's short range since it can not fire on a unit for outside that units firing range. Fortunately the unit is small and hard to spot. Early in the war the armor penetration of 12 is useful since many of the light tanks, Armored Cars and Personal Carriers of the time were only armored against rifle and MG fire. Thus it provides a very valuable anti-armor capability for the German Platoon, which is sorely lacking.
Upgrades: unfortunately there is no Stummelwefer in the game and the standard 81mm Grwefer can only be purchased as a section not as individual mortars. One of the better solutions is to replace the 50mm Mortar Squad with a second MMG squad. This gives the Platoon no indirect fire support weapon but does give a tremendous boost to the Platoons firepower. If you expect to encounter a large number of light armored vehicles then German ATG may be a better selection.

These guidelines also apply to any country that uses Platoon support Mortars with limited range.

(1)In each country different models of the caliber have slightly different characteristics. All data is from Grenades & Mortars by Ian Hogg, Ballantine's Illustrated History of the Violent Century weapons book no. 37

[ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: pbear ]

[ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: pbear ]

Pbear, Thanks for this excellent post.... John Galt

Pbear, thanks for that info. It really gives
a quick guide of the support capabilities
of the company/bn mortars.
Semper Fi
Randy

Hello partner,
I want to express you that I have liked your analysis very much. It is very good.
Thank you for the same one.

Thanks for a great post, but I do have one question. I an earlier post the accuracy of mortars against vehicles was questioned (by me, among others). All mortars seem to be pretty useful as anti-tank weapons early in the war.

You indicate that the light mortars had sights used for direct fire. Do you know whether or not the medium and heavy mortars also had direct fire sights. I always thought that they were used only in the indirect fire mode and had only indirect fire sights, used in conjunction with aiming stakes, but my mortar experience is quite limited.

Very clear and concise, thank you.

pbear, great information. I usually play as Americans and had low opinion of the 60mm, and a high opinion of my opponents weapons.

After reading your post I have a much better appreciation of the relative strengths and weaknesses. Maybe it was a case of the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence." I especially like the format of your post, mixing historical perspective, doctrine, data, and game strategy.

Thanks, and to all other posters, please feel free to contribute your own analyses. These are fun and informative to read.

[ July 15, 2001: Message edited by: 11Bravo ]

Hello All.
I'd like to report an observation.
I'd completed a secnario yesterday playing as Russia, 8/51, Delay vs Germany. I had taken 3 infantry companies with extra support elements, allowing me to assign a HMG, an ATR, and a 51mm Mortar section to each Platoon. Now I had set up my 51mm mortars 2 hexes back from the Platoon HQ, so it would remain in contact, and be close so as to provide usefull fire support to that Platoon.
Due to the terrain, Some of my mortars were placed in the open ground. Now when I went to use these Mortars, I expected them to last only minutes as they would be spotted and killed shortly after commencing indirect fire. Well to my pleasent supprise, these mortars were able to compleat 4 fire missions without being spotted once! Despite the fact that German Halftracks and Infantry had closed to within 5 hexes of the mortars!
(The mortars only fell silent as they had run out of ammo.) So my colclusion is, don't be afraid to foward deploy the small, light mortars!

Originally posted by Kluckenbill:


You indicate that the light mortars had sights used for direct fire. Do you know whether or not the medium and heavy mortars also had direct fire sights. I always thought that they were used only in the indirect fire mode and had only indirect fire sights, used in conjunction with aiming stakes, but my mortar experience is quite limited.

"The reason appears to be that these mortars were developed in WWI were the battles lines were static and were mainly used for direct fire." This is a personal opinion based on pictures, and the original purpose of the 50mm Mortar. I do not see any devices that could be use as a sight. But consider the purpose is to throw a grenade to a greater distance and with more accracy than can be achived by hand. For a set shell size and propellent charge the only thing effecting range is the angle of the tube, by lining up the tube base and top with the target you get the correct azimuth the only thing left to hit the target is to estimate the range.

A little historical note one of the Japanese Mortars used their standard grenade with an impact fuse as a round.

As far as Medium Mortars having direct fire sights, I have not look into this so I can not tell you for sure. Someone else may be able to. As far as the discussions on the proper and improper use of certain weapons, remember necessity is the mother of invention.


Thank you all for the kind responses.

[ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: pbear ]

Originally posted by pbear:
Tactical use of the 50mm Mortar Squad (German, 5cm Granatwerfer 36) in Steel Panthers World at War (Ver. 6.1).

[snip]
Remember that even though the FO can call in fire from the 50mm Mortar Squad it can not shift the fire, only the Company or Platoon commander can shift the point of impact as well as call in the original fire mission.
[snip]

Are you sure about this? I have used FO's to call in the original fire mission from mortars. I am not sure about adjusting fire but that is something that I will look at.

Just to interject a little historical confusion ,

In the Great War, the British light mortar was the 3 inch Stokes mortar which fired a useful projectile (10 pounds) to 1200 yards at a rate of up to 22 rounds per minute.

The British medium mortar was the 1.75 inch Vickers (Toffee Apple) which fired a 60 pound projectile, and was, like the Britich WW2 2" mortar, trigger actuated. The nickname Toffee Apple came from the projectile's appearance, which was a roughly spherical "apple" warhead of around 8" diameter in a 2" diameter "stick" which fit the mortar's bore. A short video clip of one being fired may be seen here

The heavy mortar was the 9.45 in. mortar (The Flying Pig) which fired a 150 lb. projectile up to 1000 yards.

From the middle of 1916 to the end of the war in Canadian as well as British service mortars were used by specialized units. Each Canadian infantry division was entitled to three light batteries, three medium batteries and one heavy battery. Each battery had four mortars.

Originally posted by pbear:
Remember that even though the FO can call in fire from the 50mm Mortar Squad it can not shift the fire, only the Company or Platoon commander can shift the point of impact...

So THAT'S why I couldn't get those little rascals to shift! My, My, learn something new every day.

Trestriction on whoi can assign fire (platoon CO) is only on unit class 'Lt mortar' (which the 50mm is)

But I specifically tried this and a German FO can assign and shift fires for German 50mm mortars.

Can someone else confirm this?

Hmmm you are correct...the restriction no longer seems to work...

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
Hmmm you are correct...the restriction no longer seems to work...

This is not new to 6.x. I know that this restriction did not work in at least one of the 5.x versions. I played around with it but they came out so close together that I can not remember which version that I saw this in.

LIkely a necessary fatality to eliminate some arcane bug...we will try again in CL/CA with a new comms model...