Matrix Games Forums

To all those treadheads:

What is the difference between the German PzIIIH and J models? Generally, a later model when introduced has better attributes and costs more. Not in this case. Why does anyone want to upgrade to a J model when H appears to be a better tank? Is this historically accurate?

Just curious.

Bruce
Semper Fi

according to the Steel Panther Tank Chart listed in an earlier thread, the IIIh was the best tank available in'40 but in '41 it was supplanted by the IIIj possibly due to the gun changing from a 50L42 in the IIIh to a 50L60 in the IIIJ with greater penetration. However the encyclopedia to which you are probably referring lists two variants of the IIIJ, one with an (s)snfd one without. the IIIJ does indeed look inferior to the IIIh but the IIIJ(s) is definitely superior in gun and armor. So what gives? Is the IIIJ(s) ever available?

That is my point. It just seemed odd they would introduce a newer model such as the J that, according to what I see, is inferior to the H Model. Why the effort?

It sounds like they quickly caught their error and the introduced the J(s) model with the improved gun. Now, the upgrade makes sense as this gun is a lot better than the H Model. Well, not worth worring over, just curious how their system worked. Thanks for the reply.

Bruce
Semper Fi

Well, there were many differences, actually; The IIIJ was the first of the series to have the armor increased to 50mm. Also, but a little hard to depict with the game engine, were redesigned hatches and cooling for brakes and final drive, and smoke candles moved to the rear. From April '42, they received 20mm spaced armor on the mantlet. The IIIJ also got less gas mileage, 155 Km, as opposed to 165km, but thats a non-issue as far as the game is concerned.There were more of the IIIJ made, 1,549 as opposed to only 308 of the IIIH, so should be able to field more of the IIIJ when available I can see what you're saying though, at first appearance, it's like, why bother!! I usually don't, just wait a few models till either the IIIJwith the L/60, or the advent of the Mk IV special!! Hope this helps at all?

[ July 14, 2001: Message edited by: Warhorse ]

The Ausf H model had extra 30mm armor plates bolted and welded to the hull front, wider tracks fitted, and a new manual gearbox was installed. The upgunning of the PzKpfw III did not occur en masse until after the start of Barbarossa. This new 'J' variant was built with 50mm or armor all around, which proved stronger than the 30+30mm of the 'H' model.Other changes were implemented, including changing the driver's visor and a new ball mounting for the hull MG. From November of '41 the L/60 gun was fitted and 40 IIIj's were constructed by the end of the year.
Due to production demands for the Russian invasion, German industry, which had demobilized after the fall of France, was hard pressed to meet the new demands for 7,992 new vehicles (only 862 PzKpfw IIIs had been built in 1940). More factories were brought in to produce them; to increase this production at low cost, a spaced 20mm plate was added to the mantlet and hull front. This became the 'L' variant, also armed with the L/60 gun.

The above is from "WWII Tanks" by Eric Grove.

It looks to me like the IIIj(s) is, in reality, the IIIl variant. The only difference in the oob is that the front turret armor has been improved. The 'H', 'J', 'L' or 'J(s)', and 'M' variants are all 1942 dates, for the most part. This would be an indication of the various factory mods to meet the production demand. The IIIh has greater armor thickness, but the IIIj has better slope. The IIIj(s) has the better gun, and thicker front turret armor (due to the add-on plate), and the IIIm increased the front hull and turret armor, and added skirts.

And, yes, the IIIj(s) is available from January 1942 until December 1942.