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Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:58 am
by Gem35
Is it possible or has anyone done this?
Engage KB with battlewagons/cruisers etc. and put a hammering to those japs?
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:30 am
by bilbow
Unlikely even if you could intercept without getting creamed. The escorts would fight while the carriers run. If you missed the intercept, then you'd likely be close enough to get creamed. Try it and find out.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:30 am
by michaelm75au
During some testing recently, the IJ KB meet the Pacific Fleet on exercises just north of PH on day 1.
Slight damage to the KB, BBs taking most of hits with a few to other units. Only TWO hits on CVs, but no substantial damage. US fleet had several BBs heavily damaged with CA/DD also damaged. The only one with hardly any damage was BB Arizona.
Michael
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:37 am
by Gem35
ok, in my current game against the hated Jap AI, KB is steaming northwest past Darwin . Frustration is pretty much maxed here (mid march42 btw). As I have been saving after each turn, I am pretty much fed up with the AI at this point. Koepang has been my major naval base for the entire RN and a host of US and Oz cruisers and DD's, 35 or so warships total. KB comes to within 5 hexes of koepang. I'm thinking Pearl Harbor all over again but this time we see em coming. As I have saved the turns I go back and send a monster Tf to where KB was spotted. ( I know I am cheating but I want to see just for fun what would happen) KB hits my TF 5 BB's and 10 CA's, just scratching the POW and sinking the Repulse. After the air ops are done I am thinking KB is doomed. Nothing happens and turn ends without a naval battle. I reload the turn and send 4 smaller Tf's to same hex and KB shows up one hex away in different Location, I reload the turn and send 2 sets of 3 Tf's to the original hex and the 'new' hex KB showed up at. Different results here, KB hits 2 of the 3 TF's in the same hex that it sits in and one TF from the hex with the other 3 TF's. Still , no ensuing battle. It's pretty much safe to say you cannot engage carriers with anything but an airplane or lucky sub attack. so, yea.....Kobayashi Maru [:@][:@][:@] pretty lame if you ask me...
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:05 am
by bbbf
The Allied AI sprung my mini-KB with a cruiser squadron.
Luckily all my escorts took the heat.
So you can catch carrier forces - it just doesn't happen too often.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:33 am
by bilbow
Why are you disappointed? Did it ever happen historically? Frankly I'd be disappointed if it were possible. I've caught crippled carriers with surface units, but never undamaged carriers. They are usually too fast for pursuit. The game models this quite well.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:39 pm
by AmiralLaurent
ORIGINAL: Gem35
ok, in my current game against the hated Jap AI, KB is steaming northwest past Darwin . Frustration is pretty much maxed here (mid march42 btw). As I have been saving after each turn, I am pretty much fed up with the AI at this point. Koepang has been my major naval base for the entire RN and a host of US and Oz cruisers and DD's, 35 or so warships total. KB comes to within 5 hexes of koepang. I'm thinking Pearl Harbor all over again but this time we see em coming. As I have saved the turns I go back and send a monster Tf to where KB was spotted. ( I know I am cheating but I want to see just for fun what would happen) KB hits my TF 5 BB's and 10 CA's, just scratching the POW and sinking the Repulse. After the air ops are done I am thinking KB is doomed. Nothing happens and turn ends without a naval battle. I reload the turn and send 4 smaller Tf's to same hex and KB shows up one hex away in different Location, I reload the turn and send 2 sets of 3 Tf's to the original hex and the 'new' hex KB showed up at. Different results here, KB hits 2 of the 3 TF's in the same hex that it sits in and one TF from the hex with the other 3 TF's. Still , no ensuing battle. It's pretty much safe to say you cannot engage carriers with anything but an airplane or lucky sub attack. so, yea.....Kobayashi Maru [:@][:@][:@] pretty lame if you ask me...
TF heavily attacked by air have probably no more op points to engage in surface battle. The strange thing is that one of the TF in KB hex was not attacked by air.
CV TF interceptions should be attempted only at night by TF that will then run away. You usually sink escorts only but may surprise the CVs and torpedo some. Sending a mass of surface TF may work. The first sank the escorts, the next the CVs.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:39 pm
by TIMJOT
ORIGINAL: Gem35
It's pretty much safe to say you cannot engage carriers with anything but an airplane or lucky sub attack. so, yea.....Kobayashi Maru [:@][:@][:@] pretty lame if you ask me...
Nope, caught and sank the Zuiho & Co. once with with Force Z. Mid-ocean intercept no less.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:57 pm
by Titanwarrior89
You can do a surface action on carrier's, ive done it before-against the AI. Had a big task force full of BB's, CA's and DD's. and tore 'em up. Posted the screenie here. So it can be done.[:D]
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:08 pm
by Gem35
Ah, I feel better then, thanks for your input folks. Sometimes I get so 'caught up' in the game and need to take a break. I guess I have some sort of hysteria from the Jap onslaught and need desperatly to get even. [;)][;)]
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:11 pm
by Titanwarrior89
Your Welcome![;)]
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:28 pm
by Tom Hunter
Better to engage KB with your air assets first and then send in the BBs. First you tire the air groups out and you may get hits that slow the enemy down. You also fatigue the ships themselves. In effect you are protecting BBs by attriting aircraft.
Then send your rested heavy ships after them and sink some cripples.
If you do it the other way round you are protecting aircraft by attriting BBs.
In Feb 42 two of my CVs hit baby KB after it had spent 3 days raiding Noumea. I bombed them and caught Zuiho with US BBs. In the end even the cripples went under on thier way home. Look at the Lessons from War AAR for details.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:48 pm
by Charles2222
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:59 pm
by Gem35
haha that's awesome Charles !
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:02 pm
by rtrapasso
Just having discovered this thread, i'll though in my 2 cents worth.
I decided to try to lure the KB into a trap off Balikpapan early in the war. I had PoW, Repulse, Houston and scads of light cruisers and DDs in port at Balikpapan with the KB and mini-KB really close nearby. I sacrificed 3 DDs, and sure enough, the KB came and cuddled up 1 hex out of Balikpapan and launched a massive strike, sinking my sacrificial lambs.
My fleet then formed and charged out a top speed - and somehow managed to intercept the mini-KB instead. Not sure how this came about. Anyway, here are 2 British radar equipped capital ships with heavy support, intercepting a carrier and a couple of CAs at 5000 yards at night, achieving surprise when they opened on the carrier with the first salvo. And THE BRITS (and company) GOT BEAT!!! After the first salvo, the British heavies shifted to the CAs - the CVL got away unscathed, the IJN CAs creamed Houston, and didn't suffer any penetrating hits.
I had a similar encounter in another game (different situation, but similar fleets) - and the Brits and co. got beat in that one, too.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:04 pm
by rtrapasso
ORIGINAL: bilbow
Why are you disappointed? Did it ever happen historically? Frankly I'd be disappointed if it were possible. I've caught crippled carriers with surface units, but never undamaged carriers. They are usually too fast for pursuit. The game models this quite well.
Happened off Norway - not in PTO, though.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:13 pm
by Stavka_lite
I caught an IJN carrier group at Kwaj. in late 43 with a big USN Bombard group and cleaned its clock during the ensuing night action. Then the AI parked the damaged ships at Kwaj so my Bombard group could shoot at them at anchor. It wasn't pretty and just about ended any resistance from the AI. 12 IJN carriers sunk by 44 along with 8 BBs. That being said, the RN is pretty effective when it doesn't have to worry about bombs falling from the sky.
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:39 pm
by spence
IRL Kurita's Central Force (Yamato, Nagato, 2 Harunas, 8CA/CL and 10+/- DDs) caught a US CVE group off Samar on 10/25/44 (daylight too)during the invasion of the Philippines. They sank CVE Gambier Bay, 2 DDs and a DE and lost 3 CAs sunk with damage to other ships. Kurita pretty much lost his nerve and withdrew after engaging the US TF for around 2 hours. Taffy 3 (the US TF) had air support from 2 other similiar CVE groups but the biggest guns in the group were 5".
Not one of those fights the IJN Fan Club likes to talk about. [:D][:D][:D]
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:41 pm
by freeboy
Clearly a fow issue... or leadership and fow issue....
RE: Kobayashi Maru
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:47 am
by Rob322
ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Just having discovered this thread, i'll though in my 2 cents worth.
I decided to try to lure the KB into a trap off Balikpapan early in the war. I had PoW, Repulse, Houston and scads of light cruisers and DDs in port at Balikpapan with the KB and mini-KB really close nearby. I sacrificed 3 DDs, and sure enough, the KB came and cuddled up 1 hex out of Balikpapan and launched a massive strike, sinking my sacrificial lambs.
My fleet then formed and charged out a top speed - and somehow managed to intercept the mini-KB instead. Not sure how this came about. Anyway, here are 2 British radar equipped capital ships with heavy support, intercepting a carrier and a couple of CAs at 5000 yards at night, achieving surprise when they opened on the carrier with the first salvo. And THE BRITS (and company) GOT BEAT!!! After the first salvo, the British heavies shifted to the CAs - the CVL got away unscathed, the IJN CAs creamed Houston, and didn't suffer any penetrating hits.
I had a similar encounter in another game (different situation, but similar fleets) - and the Brits and co. got beat in that one, too.
No kidding, this happened to me too as Allies vs AI. I intercepted the mini-KB at night with the Brit Heavies and got one hit on the flight deck of a CVL, then nothing. Then daylight came, KB came down close and vaporized everything there.
