Matrix Games Forums

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:02 pm**

Hi !

I'm pleased to write now. My searches for Romania OOB improved. Altough I found some problems. One of this is the following: the Romania WWII air forces used very intensely Savoia Marchetti JRS 79B and B1 bombers for bombing missions. They can carries 2000 kg max. bombs (at 300 km range). I think it must to enter ''heavy level bombers'' for Romania. But I don't know......2,4 or 6....
Was a fact that this airplanes bombings with 500 kg (that's the maximum type of the bombs used by romanians in WWII on airplanes) bombs for romanian army. Now, for the ''accuracy loving'' how we can introduce this in game ?
For documentation PLEASE search this excellent site: http://www.wwii.home.ro/airplane.htm

Best regards,
Leo.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:28 pm**

Gavris, I'd think twice before introducing the Heavy bomber unit.

Even though those planes were *theoretically* capable for carrying 500kg bombs, that was usually done in such manner that the overall bombload was reduced.

So a plane capable for 2000kg load would normally carry only two 500kg bombs, and perhaps some smaller ones.

In practice the maximum bombloads were achieved only when the planes were new (engines giving out maximum power) and when the runway was paved & long enough for the long take-off run.

If you make this unit I'd suggest "2 heavy bombers" and bombload of one 500kg and one 250 kg bomb. But don't get disappointed if it's edited prior to official publishing.

Voriax

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:38 pm**

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Voriax:
[QB]Gavris, I'd think twice before introducing the Heavy bomber unit.

Even though those planes were *theoretically* capable for carrying 500kg bombs, that was usually done in such manner that the overall bombload was reduced.

So a plane capable for 2000kg load would normally carry only two 500kg bombs, and perhaps some smaller ones.

In practice the maximum bombloads were achieved only when the planes were new (engines giving out maximum power) and when the runway was paved & long enough for the long take-off run.

If you make this unit I'd suggest "2 heavy bombers" and bombload of one 500kg and one 250 kg bomb. But don't get disappointed if it's edited prior to official publishing.

Usually this bombers bombing with 1300 kg or more on eastern front (I read this in books). And it is possible to carry 2000 kg bombs even without your '' achieved only when the planes were new (engines giving out maximum power) and when the runway was paved & long enough for the long take-off run'', romanians generally reduced the amount of fuel for incresed bombings capabilities.

Leo.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2001 7:49 pm**

Originally posted by Gavris Narcis:

Originally posted by Voriax:
[QB]Gavris, I'd think twice before introducing the Heavy bomber unit.

Even though those planes were *theoretically* capable for carrying 500kg bombs, that was usually done in such manner that the overall bombload was reduced.

So a plane capable for 2000kg load would normally carry only two 500kg bombs, and perhaps some smaller ones.

In practice the maximum bombloads were achieved only when the planes were new (engines giving out maximum power) and when the runway was paved & long enough for the long take-off run.

If you make this unit I'd suggest "2 heavy bombers" and bombload of one 500kg and one 250 kg bomb. But don't get disappointed if it's edited prior to official publishing.

Usually this bombers bombing with 1300 kg or more on eastern front (I read this in books). And it is possible to carry 2000 kg bombs even without your '' achieved only when the planes were new (engines giving out maximum power) and when the runway was paved & long enough for the long take-off run'', romanians generally reduced the amount of fuel for incresed bombings capabilities.

Leo.
So, they reduced the fuel load to put more bombs onboard? Many Rumanian pilots ditched before making it home, then? Not enough fuel to get to the target, make the bomb run, then return, huh?

Come on, Gavris....this obsession with bombers is becoming tiresome to many of us. They're abstract, they bomb in a straight line of hexes, they're not very reliable (sometimes they don't show up at all), and they're only good for one mission. Why waste your time on this? Put you energies into something useful in the game.

BTRC

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:00 am**

Originally posted by Flashfyre:
Come on, Gavris....this obsession with bombers is becoming tiresome to many of us. They're abstract, they bomb in a straight line of hexes, they're not very reliable (sometimes they don't show up at all), and they're only good for one mission. Why waste your time on this? Put you energies into something useful in the game.BTRC

So .. it looks like you haven't been bombed by either another player or in one of WBWs scenarios, have you ?

2 well-placed 500kg bombs will take out a inf. company easily, so don't speak of 'no use'.

And than he is working on the Rumanian OOB, not only some bombers...

I don't like "if you ain't going to say something nice, don't say anything", for shure, but your kind of approaching a fellow gamer who puts some of his precious time into perfecting this game would be sufficient to start a nice flamewar on any NG.

Thank Good we're all (ok. mostly) a little bit more matured here and tend to stay away from something like this (mostly), so better do not tempt us !

A.

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:03 am**

Originally posted by Arralen:

So .. it looks like you haven't been bombed by either another player or in one of WBWs scenarios, have you ?

2 well-placed 500kg bombs will take out a inf. company easily, so don't speak of 'no use'.

And than he is working on the Rumanian OOB, not only some bombers...

I don't like "if you ain't going to say something nice, don't say anything", for shure, but your kind of approaching a fellow gamer who puts some of his precious time into perfecting this game would be sufficient to start a nice flamewar on any NG.

Thank Good we're all (ok. mostly) a little bit more matured here and tend to stay away from something like this (mostly), so better do not tempt us !

A.

Yes, I have been bombed, many times. They are unreliable, just like all the air power in the game; they can be delayed, they can bomb the wrong area (like my own troops 12 hexes away), they can fail to show at all.

The Rumanian Oob already has bombers in it...trust me, I've looked trhough it enough, checking for errors in the purchasing screens and the formation types. I am a member of the Tiger Team; our mission has been to clean up the Oobs or errors. We cannot do this if we do not have viable, reliable, documented sources. No apocryphal data; no vague recollections of books read, movies seen, documentaries watched, or tales told.

For the longest time, many of us have encouraged all of you to please give source materials for these types of posts. Many fail to do so....

As to working on the Rumanian OOb....more power to him. Why didn't he volunteer to assist the Team on this? I don't know.....so I try to get sources from him. No luck. If he wants to fix the Rumanians, fine with me. But I would caution him to clear everything first; otherwise it probably won't be approved.

Now, as to putting in precious time to perfect this game...I have been working non-stop these past few weeks to make corrections to ALL the Oobs.....with very little assistance from the community. Why, you ask? Because no one can be bothered to research their claims. I haven't even PLAYED this game for over a month...I've been through all 28 Oobs so many times, I almost know them by heart. Read my post on the OOB Forum.....I've put a briefing there, to let everyone know what the Team has been working on. Also, I've had my hand in the weapons discussions, trying to straighten out the utter mess that the weapon data has become over the years.

And all this, I have done because I want to see a better game.

Can you say the same? So stay off the high horse.....give us a hand getting these Oobs cleaned up. Do some research into the areas you think are not right....quote us some sources. Post a link to a page that might clear something up. But don't waste your time on something trivial....chances are, it won't make the final cut anyhow. There is only so much room in the Oobs, and only so much the game engine can deal with. Let's not get fanciful, trying to put everything in. That's what 'abstract' and 'representation' mean....using one general thing to represent a host of varied things.
There is a level bomber....don't worry about the loads. Use it to 'represent' all the various bombers and loadouts....edit the unit in the game, during scenario design. Whatever works.

Because what goes into the Oobs has to have some basis in an historical, commonly-used, production-quality way. Only if it becomes a 'designer-only' unit would it appear otherwise.

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