Matrix Games Forums

To start off I am very excited about this game!

I am wondering if this could be a bit of a problem (small one). Assuming 2 players, one plays axis (germany japan) the other the allies. Now if I was playing as the axis my strategy would be a simple one, make sure I take out England before I even considered taking on Russia (and at the same time as Japan hold off starting a war with the US) Then with England out of the way I would concentrate on taking out Russia with both Germany and Japan, then I would take on the US. I worry somewhat this could become the main strategy for an Axis player in a 2 player game.

Now this may be a moot point, how hard is it to take out Britian early? Or is there options on how Russia and the US can enter the war?

Nevertheless I just can not wait for this one!!! When I heard the game went gold I could hardly sleep that night! Also I am extremly happy that this will be available in stores! While I am not against digital downloads (I am still stuck with dial up) I prefere buying it in a store. Hope it has a good manual!

I think you will like the manual. As for the strategy, let us know how it works. The US and Russia won't come into the war until 1943 (as long as you keep certain garrisons, don't attack certain neutrals, etc.). Taking out England will not be easy. You don't have the navy for it. Also, the US will be helping England out with their production by providing supplies and some weapons research. As long as England keeps their air defenses up, and keeps researching ASW technology, you won't likely take out England. Of course, I could be wrong.

i wouldnt call it a loop hole more like a possible strategy.All i can say,try taking out England early,i have absoulte confidence the beta testers have done there job.
In my opinion you are suggesting a very high risk strategy that if it failed it would in fact leave Germany high and dry after putting in and committing to an effort to such an aventure,and good luk with dealing with the allied Navy as well

The biggest problem you have in taking out England is that Japan cannot contribute without bringing the United States into the war (the sea zones necessary are frozen & will activate if you try it).

Germany should be more concerned with the Soviet Union, because if you let them alone for too long, you will find yourself facing not only more forces, but better equipped.

I just hope taking out England is not to easy (which it sounds it isnt) Does a delay in a dow with Russia benifit or hinder Russia's production? Also if Japan declares war on Russia does this allow the US to enter?

ORIGINAL: Rubblestone

I just hope taking out England is not to easy (which it sounds it isnt) Does a delay in a dow with Russia benifit or hinder Russia's production? Also if Japan declares war on Russia does this allow the US to enter?

Japan's DOW on Russia does not allow the US to enter. A delayed DOW on Russia by the German player will likely be catastrophic for the German. While the Soviet factories will not crank up to wartime productions, the Soviet player will have more time to prepare for the invasion.

What would be more interesting is pure eastward war. Go after Russia only and don't make the two front war mistake.

"Operation Orient"

Now, where can we get an early manual of this for download?

If Japan invades Russia, does this allow the US to declare war?

What would be more interesting is pure eastward war. Go after Russia only and don't make the two front war mistake.

It only takes one turn to take France - and it takes a few turns to build up enough supply and units to invade Russia. I'm nor sure the supply saving leaving France alone is worth the aggrevation of having them hanging around harrassing your back. You would need to garrison western Germany and Italy with enough to make it much more of a two front war, than if you just knock France. There is also Yugoslavia and Greece to get to get teh strong resource base for invading Russia. You astart with 7 Panzerkorps, so sending them immediately East into Russia might give you extra time and getting teh Russian winter out of teh way in Wi41, vice Wi42.

Going after England early is tough, but could keep the fleets loser to home.

I haven't played the Axis much. My inclination is that these sorts of "openings" will be significantly risky gambits. A battle of Britian seems to be something (like many strategies in the game) that may be good to give a try to, but if you don't "get lucky" initially, abandon for a more conventionl approach.

Going for air superiority over Britain and teh channel is one that might be in this catagory. damage or destroy two Brit fighers and the London Flak and you may be able to achieve a good Blitz.

Russia though is not the sort of thing you can try, and if it goes poorly early, abondon or something else!

If Japan invades Russia, does this allow the US to declare war?

No, i don't think so. Never tried it though. Japan has her hands full - especialy when the US factories swing into high gear. China can be a HUGE manpower drain if played well/with good luck.

The US has to be careful though, build to big a fleet and it can be a BEAR to keep supplied except to putt around. You have to chose your "strategic direction" across teh Pacific carefully, becasue if you have to send a large fleet "full speed steaming" you can take a MASSIVE logisitics hit.

That is one thing I am excited about this game, all the different strategy's you can try

The REALLY neat thing is not just the range of strategies, but the way logistics factors in. in one game I thought "This is too ficking easy! I had like 6 CVs 8 heavy fleets 8 light fleets and I set out across the pacific to bulldoze everything in my path. Before I got halfway to HI I was confronted by "illegal move" everywhere.

"What the..." and I then was confronted withthe HORDE Of supply points all that required to get across the pcific. Three turns later I had a stockpile for warfighting, and what I thought was going to be a cake walk turned into a a constant battle to build an army AND research to make it better and build enough supplies to do a damn thing with it!!

IF you move more than a single area you are using "extended movement and the supply cost goes through teh roof. To move my "death Star" armada more than 1 area, it cost 4 for hvy fleets, 3 for CVs and 2 for lgt fleets for agrand total of 32+18+16 = 66 supplies to move that force! That is 14 PPs of supply right there!

Not only do have to think up interesting strategies, you have to weigh how SUPPORTING it will cost you in the long run.

Another thing I have been meaning to ask, when you start a senario are the units fixed? Both in what you have and where they are?

ORIGINAL: Rubblestone

Another thing I have been meaning to ask, when you start a senario are the units fixed? Both in what you have and where they are?

Yes.

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

ORIGINAL: Rubblestone

Another thing I have been meaning to ask, when you start a senario are the units fixed? Both in what you have and where they are?

Yes.

Ah, but don't forget that most of the game is setup with text files so the starting forces and locations can be changed![X(]






ps. Hey Rubblestone, Red Deer, Alberta is where I was born! You from there?

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Now, where can we get an early manual of this for download?

Now there's an option. Lets us DL the manual NOW and we'll be prepared when it comes out:) I'd even pay $5 for the duplicsate manual:)

To the original point about taking out England - I tried last night - building nothing but U-boats (researching evasion and torps), fighters and fighterbombers (wiht increased fighter range and air to air, and increased FB evasion and land attack), and a goodly amount of transports.

My goal was to use Range 2 fighters and more evasive and deadly FBs to wear down the RAF and damage ground forces, while a swarm of Uboats made it very costly to interdict the channel, while they cut off england. I started the BoB in Sp41, (it takes a few turns to get the u-boats and planes to start coming off the assembly lines. Attrition went poorly and I was not able to attempt an invasion until Sp42. It failed twice. at this point its Su42, I have nothing to fend off the impending Russian attack in Sp43. I own teh Med, and with a sizeable U-boat fleet it will be a long time before teh US can get into England.

But I have 9 tanks and 20 Inf to defend the Eastern front agaisnt stacks of like 30 Russian units. [X(]

I think my initial turn of BoB did me in as I lost 3 planes Damaged (a F, twoFBs) and lost a HB. i only damaged 1 fighter and dmaged a Flak and an arty. The next turn I lost another F damaged a FB destroyed and only dmaged a troop unit.

From a pbem POV I 3 fighters and 3 Flak in London pretty make BoB, and Sea Lion a non-starter. That should damage at least 3 air and could get as many as 5. The Germans would have to get REALLY lucky to get past that on multiple turns. Using Airfield attacks may make a dif, but even teh two flak the AI had got 3 hits in two turns. Then I had to wait a turn to repair my damage and when i tried again I had better luck, but still lost 2 AI againd 2 fighters an 1 flak.

My U-boats did pretty well with torp 3, I didn't have enough FBs to pummel london and interdict at sea. With NA fallen, theie was a fair buttload of troops in England, and even cut off from the US, I MIGHT be possible to take England from the AI, but I don;t think it will be possible agaisnt a wary Human. Not without REALLY good initial attacks.

And all the while you leave yourself open to a massive Russian invasion in 43, with next to nothing to defend agaisnt it.

I may have missed something - but like in Third Reich, the Birtish have to make a mistake and leave an opening (A weak Scotland perhaps to gain a foothold, rather than going for London directly??)

The amazing thing about the game is that, like 3R, you look at the map and go "the countries are pretty small - not much room to manuever" ITs more like teh close quarters of SPI's old "Global war". But once you get into the game its like "tunnel vision" sets in and like many of these games mentioned, suddenly EVERY hex seemed hugely important, and same here - especially in Russsia - the scope of the battles in the areas makes you feel much less claustrophobic than you might think.

Once the "book strategies" were discovered in 3R, that claustrophobia set back in a bit particularly in Global War - but even then it became a function of properly executing the "book openings" and how you dealt with the bad die rolls when they came that seperated the good players from the GREAT players. Without "miscounting odds" or leaving a gap in your 2nd line this game is much more forgiving - it is more 'campaigning' in feel than counter pushing games.

I think the luck factor - like in the War at Sea/Victory in the Pacific and the Columbia block games - is greater than in an more "tactical counter pushing" game like 3R and even the Colubia Block games - the trade is much less a "Tactical competance" factor deciding victory - for a much greater "logistics planning factor". Poor build, research and logistics strategy can CRIPPLE you in this game where in. miscalculating your supply build and finding nothing left to conduct a key attak replaces "miscounting factors" and being 1 short of a 3-1...

The depth of the game makes you THINK like you do in games like 3R, but without as much need to "get down in the weeds' carrying it out. That may be a BAD thing for some people who WANT to 'out counter-push" their opponent. But being an expert counter pusher in my day, its nice to not have to worry about that for a change. That and being able to play a whole game through in a single evening (well, a LONG evening and as a single country) - I've gottetn down to 3-4 turns per hour playing the WA - the most timeconsuming side to play (being so logistically constrained and with a two front war).

The combat has the WAS/VITP/block game feel, but the "attack dice vs evasion* durability" system is a much better link to the research system, and to me works a ot better than 'Yahtzee at sea' dicing for 6's.

There some quirks to the supply rules - particularly with naval forces (NEVER let a fleet get caught in unfriendly water, cut off from a Sea Line of Communication). I did that and saw a 4 CV 6 Hvy 6 Lgt fleet battle force, that had just sunk 3 Jap CVs and 2 heavy fleets to aloss of damage to 1 CV and 2 lgt. suddenly just evaorate in two turns when I left it overextened.

It got hit the next turn badly, damaging 2 hvy and 2 light (both sunk), but damagin 1 Jap HVy in return. But I didn't realize teh effect of it now being solated from its SLOC!!!!

The next turn started surounded by enemy held regions and no supply it was toast - losing evaision and unable to move for lack of fuel, Jap subs opfired my attmepts to push and unrep fleet to it and 7 Jap light fleets scored gun hits AND torp hits and sunk 3CVs 1 HV and 3 light fleets. I finally linked up to it the 3rd turn and of my attempt to steam roll the Japs, I met my midway and of 16 fleets, 1 Hy and 1 light made it back to HI unscathed...[:-][:o][:@]

I can only imagine what goes throw your head if you pull off something like that against a human [&o][:D][8D]

Power problems with our ice storm last night kept me from advancing the AAR - I will continu on tonight.

ps. Hey Rubblestone, Red Deer, Alberta is where I was born! You from there?

Yep, born and raised... I live just a few miles south of Red Deer