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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:20 am
by SpitfireIX
Hello, all--
This happened to me in Scenario 15, latest version (1.4). Theoretically it belongs in bug reports, but it is so serious I thought I'd mention it here, and see if anyone else has had anything similar happen. And I don't have a repeatable save, as I was playing the AI and didn't realize what had really happened until I peeked at the Japanese forces later.
In brief: I was preparing to invade Munda with the First and Second Marine Divisions, the Fourth Marine Regiment, and a few supporting battalions. I had conducted extensive recon and bombing for the previous month, and also had a sub snooping around. Intel indicated about 10,000 Japanese troops, so I figured I had plenty of force to do the job.
Anyway, when the bombardment force arrived, it was like that scene in the cartoon where Daffy Duck gets blasted by an array of shotguns pointing in from all four edges of the frame. Expecting little opposition, I had ordered the escorts to bombard. The force sustained several _hundred_ shell hits; four DDs immediately sank. Many other ships were damaged. Then the transports arrived, and suffered a similar hail of shells. By the end of the day, most of the infantry had disembarked--I felt I had to leave the transports to unload, and I also threw in the second wave, which had additional supplies. The troops were sufficiently disrupted that they were unable to dislodge the Japanese division that was entrenched to level 9; eventually I had to cancel the attack. I sent in a second bombardment force to try to reduce the murderous fire on the transports; although I of course ordered the escorts to stand off, Salt Lake City was sunk and Pensacola seriously damaged (memo to self: have Pensacola class stick to escorting CVs in the future). Eventually the defensive fire slacked and I was able to land additional troops and take the island.
Following is a list of ships I lost--this does not count cripples that were knocked off by air and subs. All the ones sunk by 5.5" shell were direct casualties. To be continued...
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:21 am
by SpitfireIX
Continued...
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:21 am
by SpitfireIX
and finally...
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:27 am
by Gem35
neat-o you got 3 of his carriers [&o]
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:30 am
by rogueusmc
So.....what is the bug?[&:]
If you are just talking about the heavy losses and a screwed invasion....remember Tarawa?
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:34 am
by Skyros
Good thing the allied player has plenty of Aks and stuff[:'(]
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:36 am
by ADavidB
Fundamentally, you can't attack well fortified positions unless you destroy all of the supplies ahead of time. Even then, if you are playing against the AI, you will probably still get hammered.
You mentioned that you had been bombing it a lot - were you bombing the port, airfield or troops? The only thing that gets rid of CDs is port bombing.
Also, you need to always have a number of bombardment fleets go in ahead of time and repeatedly if you really do intend to invade. Essentially, every time you send bombers, you should send battleships too. If you really, really want a well defended base, be prepared to do that for a month or so.
Is that realistic? No, but it is what is required by the game.
And don't forget, after all that, the Japanese troops will still be "Gods" and fight forever.
Dave Baranyi
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:36 am
by pompack
Did you peak later to see what he had forted up there?
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:38 am
by SpitfireIX
After this fiasco, I decided, for a variety of reasons, to abandon the game, so I re-loaded with the Japanese as the human player, and decided to take a look and see exactly what the Japanese had that had shredded my landing force. So I checked Munda, and found only three units, including a fragment of a base force hiding in the jungle from the US Marines and Army. It didn't look too impressive, so I clicked on TOE, and discovered the following. In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, "AAAAAAAAAAAGH!" I have a current save, but I have no idea when this happened, so I don't have a repeatable save. Maybe next game I'll save every turn just in case. BTW, note that these guns are not the same ones that wreaked havoc on the landing force--not sure if that's because they "upgraded," or if their equipment got changed randomly again. Also, these are supposed to be 245 support squads. Has anyone else had anything like this happen?
--Doug
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:39 am
by Halsey
The air recon is almost worhless. It will help the DL levels at the target hex. If intel shows 10,000 men, it it probably closer to 30-40,000 men.
Don't ever use your escorts in the first 3-4 days of bombardments. They always get smoked. Looks like you needed some BB's to help take these guys down.
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:40 am
by Ron Saueracker
ORIGINAL: SpitfireIX
Hello, all--
This happened to me in Scenario 15, latest version (1.4). Theoretically it belongs in bug reports, but it is so serious I thought I'd mention it here, and see if anyone else has had anything similar happen. And I don't have a repeatable save, as I was playing the AI and didn't realize what had really happened until I peeked at the Japanese forces later.
In brief: I was preparing to invade Munda with the First and Second Marine Divisions, the Fourth Marine Regiment, and a few supporting battalions. I had conducted extensive recon and bombing for the previous month, and also had a sub snooping around. Intel indicated about 10,000 Japanese troops, so I figured I had plenty of force to do the job.
Anyway, when the bombardment force arrived, it was like that scene in the cartoon where Daffy Duck gets blasted by an array of shotguns pointing in from all four edges of the frame. Expecting little opposition, I had ordered the escorts to bombard. The force sustained several _hundred_ shell hits; four DDs immediately sank. Many other ships were damaged. Then the transports arrived, and suffered a similar hail of shells. By the end of the day, most of the infantry had disembarked--I felt I had to leave the transports to unload, and I also threw in the second wave, which had additional supplies. The troops were sufficiently disrupted that they were unable to dislodge the Japanese division that was entrenched to level 9; eventually I had to cancel the attack. I sent in a second bombardment force to try to reduce the murderous fire on the transports; although I of course ordered the escorts to stand off, Salt Lake City was sunk and Pensacola seriously damaged (memo to self: have Pensacola class stick to escorting CVs in the future). Eventually the defensive fire slacked and I was able to land additional troops and take the island.
Following is a list of ships I lost--this does not count cripples that were knocked off by air and subs. All the ones sunk by 5.5" shell were direct casualties. To be continued...
So, you bombed Munda for a month!?! And you lost 2 and a half pages worth of ships to 5.5" CD fire? WTF? How many 5.5s were there? Did you have cruisers in the amphibious TF to provide suppression fire? Wish you had the save! This sounds a bit much any way you slice it.[X(]
245 CD Guns?????? From where?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:44 am
by ADavidB
HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
245 CD guns????????????????????
WTF?????????????????????
Is there really a Japanese base force with that number of guns, or is this something really, really goofy with the unlimited build of base forces by the AI?
Frag, Pry? Any ideas what is going on?
Dave Baranyi
RE: 245 CD Guns?????? From where?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:56 am
by byron13
WTF is right! 245 CD guns? In a fragment? All I can say is: WTF? What the f'ing F?
Spit, my friend, you got hosed by something that ain't right.
RE: 245 CD Guns?????? From where?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:58 am
by SpitfireIX
ORIGINAL: ADavidB
HUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
245 CD guns????????????????????
WTF?????????????????????
Is there really a Japanese base force with that number of guns, or is this something really, really goofy with the unlimited build of base forces by the AI?
Frag, Pry? Any ideas what is going on?
Dave Baranyi
I'm quite certain this is a bug, as the unit's original TOE included 245 support squads.
RE: 245 CD Guns?????? From where?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:59 am
by Tankerace
Jeez, it almost sounds like to take an island you have to drop Fat Man on it to blow up all the dang CD guns. double WTF is in order gentlemen.
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:10 am
by Ron Saueracker
All I know is that I hope PBEM opponents don't take advantage of this kind of crap appearing after putting so much time into a game. If I see this, the puppy will be shipped home to some dark useless and cold base like Juneau.
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:17 am
by SpitfireIX
ORIGINAL: Halsey
The air recon is almost worhless. It will help the DL levels at the target hex. If intel shows 10,000 men, it it probably closer to 30-40,000 men.
Don't ever use your escorts in the first 3-4 days of bombardments. They always get smoked. Looks like you needed some BB's to help take these guys down.
The TF had 8 BB, 2 CA, 1 CL, and 4DD, and a couple of DMS, IIRC. I had the escorts bombard because I was thinking of Omaha Beach.
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:18 am
by tsimmonds
Betcha a 6-pack this only shows up in games vs the AI; it's trying to expand to fill out the aviation support per the cheatin' AI rules, but something is pointing at the wrong slot. Or something. Well, if you have had enough to drink it makes sense anyway.
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:22 am
by ADavidB
ORIGINAL: irrelevant
Betcha a 6-pack this only shows up in games vs the AI; it's trying to expand to fill out the aviation support per the cheatin' AI rules, but something is pointing at the wrong slot. Or something. Well, if you have had enough to drink it makes sense anyway.
If this shows up in PBEM too than I am only playing the Japanese side from now on...[:D]
(Visualizing three or four of these 245 gun BFs on an atoll...[X(])
Dave Baranyi
RE: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:22 am
by SpitfireIX
ORIGINAL: irrelevant
Betcha a 6-pack this only shows up in games vs the AI; it's trying to expand to fill out the aviation support per the cheatin' AI rules, but something is pointing at the wrong slot. Or something. Well, if you have had enough to drink it makes sense anyway.
That's why I'd like to know if anyone else has seen anything like this.