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As it seems heavy bombers are too powerful in night bombing against airfields, I decided to make some changes to see if this could be corrected, avoiding the need for house rules. I used the Guadalcanal scenario as a template and made the following changes:

1-A new ordnance was created for heavy bombers, the 227kg bom. It has effect reduced by 30% and accuracy by 60% in relation to the standard 500lb bombs
2-Then all heavy bombers and all bomber groups had this new ordnance placed in exchange for the 500lb bombs
3-A test was made using the standard scenario: 3 bomber groups in PM (2 B-17 and 1 B-24) flying at night at 5000 feet, with all Rabaul planes grounded. The test in the same conditions were made with the alternative ordnance
4-When I made the test with the standard ordnance, it gave a total of 119 bombers in seven days, destroying 55 Japanese planes (each plane/mission destroyed 0,46 aircraft)
5-The test with modified ordnance resulted in 136 bombers in 7 days destroying 85 Japanese aircraft (total 0,62/plane/mission)

Result: my attempt to tweak the game engine by touing with the ordnance gave negative results, it seems. Why did it happened? And it seems night bombing is really TOO powerful...back to house rules....

Did you raise or lower the accuracy values? The lower the accuracy value, the more accurate it is.

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Did you raise or lower the accuracy values? The lower the accuracy value, the more accurate it is.

-I lowered them. Thank you, Tankerace, I will repeat the process....
-But I have a doubt. Newer depth charges, like the Mk9 have a much higher accuracy, is the accuracy for depth charges measured in the same way? Another point, it seems torpedoes accuracy is equal to speed, so when I increase the value in the editor, I´m actually increasing accuracy? Does each device have it own way to measure accuracy???

Repeated the test with ordnance accuracy increased by 150%. It gave 123 missions with 53 planes destroyed. Index=0,43/plane/mission. Essentially unchanged. Maybe a bigger sample is needed for an ANOVA test, but at first glance it seems I´m not in the right way....

On that I'm not sure. I just know that for guns for sure that lower rating smean higher accuracy (or at least they seem to), and in tests with bombs they seem to as well. Torps, not to sure yet. After all, a torpedo is only as accurate as the guy that fires it, so I am still running tests on that.

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

On that I'm not sure. I just know that for guns for sure that lower rating smean higher accuracy (or at least they seem to), and in tests with bombs they seem to as well. Torps, not to sure yet. After all, a torpedo is only as accurate as the guy that fires it, so I am still running tests on that.

-Did you make tests with bombs? Why heavy bombers seem to be so more accurate than two engine bombers even after adjustment for bombload????
-On torpedoes, I disagree with you, slower topedoes aren´t accurate, as the target have more time to evade them.

I do not disagree that a faster torpedo has a better chance of hitting a target, but technically that's not accuracy. Accuracy would be the torpedoes ability to travel in a straight line.

Still, that may very well be how the game accounts for this.

Hi all,

As far as i know bomb load on the aircraft screen is ONLY used against ships.
Against ground targets the max load figure which is just a number is used.

I think, but do not know, that this number drops over the aircrafts range.

Mike

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I do not disagree that a faster torpedo has a better chance of hitting a target, but technically that's not accuracy. Accuracy would be the torpedoes ability to travel in a straight line.

Still, that may very well be how the game accounts for this.

-Agree with you, but looking at the "in game" database and then to the editor the values for accuracy and speed are exactly the same.

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Hi all,

As far as i know bomb load on the aircraft screen is ONLY used against ships.
Against ground targets the max load figure which is just a number is used.

I think, but do not know, that this number drops over the aircrafts range.

Mike

-Nice information, and helps to explain while my changes in database resulted in nothing. Could someone from the Matrix staff confirm this info? If correct, I will have troubles in adjusting the rates for heavy bombing.
Btw: You have experience with the editor, what do you think abut the effectiveness of the B monsters?

New test:
Now Betties are doing night bombing against PM, with 100 allied planes grounded. Results: 104 sorties and 8 planes destroyed in 7 days. A rate of 0,076 planes/Betty/mission, if we assume this rate is proportional to payload (1:4-1:5), we have some disadvantage for the Betties (expected would be 0,09-0,12), althought again I need more tests. I´m assuming also that the change of ordnance didn´t affect previous tests, so we have 0,43/0,62/0,46 (mean 0,50) vs 0,07. Another important difference is that the Japanese lost 5/104 Betties while the allies lost 4 planes in their previous 300 sorties (considering how fragile the Betty is, this seems ok.).
Solution: will need more tests and if my suspects are confirmed, will attempt to decrease B-17 and B-24 payload.

to lower heavy bomber effectiveness simply lower 'max bombload'.

And yes, i think that the HBs are too effective. Part of the problem is the designers were for the most part Allied fanboys.

For an example, the max bombload listed for the Judy divebomber is 683lbs, while the max bomb load for the B29 is 20,000lbs.

The problem there is that the max bombload used by the Judy was 1344lbs and the max bomb load used by a B29 that flew higher than 8,000ft and was armed was 14,000lbs.

From what i can tell the average load used by the B29s in China was 8,000lbs while the Saipan based were carrying 10-12,000lbs.
Only when they instituted low altitude raids with unarmed, low crew B29s did the capacity rise to 20,000lbs.

Mike

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

to lower heavy bomber effectiveness simply lower 'max bombload'.

And yes, i think that the HBs are too effective. Part of the problem is the designers were for the most part Allied fanboys.

For an example, the max bombload listed for the Judy divebomber is 683lbs, while the max bomb load for the B29 is 20,000lbs.

The problem there is that the max bombload used by the Judy was 1344lbs and the max bomb load used by a B29 that flew higher than 8,000ft and was armed was 14,000lbs.

From what i can tell the average load used by the B29s in China was 8,000lbs while the Saipan based were carrying 10-12,000lbs.
Only when they instituted low altitude raids with unarmed, low crew B29s did the capacity rise to 20,000lbs.

Mike

-Good information, but such a dramatic decrease in heavy bomber load won´t make them somewhat similar to medium bombers? I´m considering the possibility of decreasing all bombloads for Heavy bombers by 50%, and will see what happens.

That is one of the little known realities of American 'heavy' bombers; the British were stunned to find that their pre war medium bombers carried as much or more ordinance.

Mike

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

That is one of the little known realities of American 'heavy' bombers; the British were stunned to find that their pre war medium bombers carried as much or more ordinance.

Mike

-Not to mention some medium German bombers, like the Ju-88 and Do-217....the Wellington payload is 4500lbs in WiTP. The Mosquito could carry 4000lbs. I want to test those planes to see if they are as effective as the B-17/B-24. That will be my next test.

-I made an experimental change of bombloads for all planes, multiplying them for 0,454 (in other words, bombloads in the plane screens are now their value in kilograms, not in pounds). I´m playing the Guadalcanal scenario and it seems the power of heavy bombers decreased a lot. Nigth raids by 6 B-17´s aren´t able to destroy any planes in the ground. On the other hand, the AI seems to be using more Betties in night attacks (being able to kill some soldiers). To compensate the overall decrease in bombload, I also decreased the size (both starting and maximum) of airfields. I have the impression it is working, I don´t know.

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!
As far as i know bomb load on the aircraft screen is ONLY used against ships.
Against ground targets the max load figure which is just a number is used.

That may make sense since it is the way PacWar and WiR did it.