Matrix Games Forums

Hello,

a screenshot is better than long explains:



As you can see, I've ordered a lot of units for german production, and the values of ressources, production points and population points suddenly become negative.

My question:

Why can I order a unit to be produced, even if there are not enough ressources/production points left for this unit to be produced? Is this intended? If it's intended: Why?

Thanks. [:)]

Ciao Frank

This most likely happened because you maxed out production with your planned units and then damaged units from the map were added to the production queue, causing available resources to be exceeded. I'm guessing, but that's how I've seen it happen here. Just put the ones that are not high priority on hold until you reach parity again.

Regards,

- Erik

also you're only showing west germany. population and resources are pooled for the country. therefore the negative numbers are also coming from austria, east germany and chekoslavakia(sp?).

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
This most likely happened because you maxed out production with your planned units and then damaged units from the map were added to the production queue, causing available resources to be exceeded.

Sorry, but this is not the case. I actually started my first turn without any battles and thus with no damaged units. In the first production phase, I can "produce" as much units as I want, I can even create -100 ressources, -100 production points and -100 population points.

Of course these tons of units will never be produced, but it would be better if you could never get a negative value at the production screen (without the influence of damaged units).

Ciao Frank

The most direct way at this point for you to prioritize some units so that work continues on them is to put others on hold. To put a production order on hold, right click on the number below that unit. Repeat this process at some point in the future to resume production on that unit.

The same amount of work will be done either way, but if you never leave any numbers in the negative, it will be you deciding which work gets done rather than some AI algorithm.

EDIT:if you want to cancel a build order rather than just postpone it, left click the small number below the unit. Each click cancels or postpones only one unit not the stack. When cancellign a build, there is a confirmation box.

ORIGINAL: aletoledo
also you're only showing west germany. population and resources are pooled for the country. therefore the negative numbers are also coming from austria, east germany and chekoslavakia(sp?).

No, they're only from West Germany. I did not touch the other regions, since I wanted to demonstrate this strange thing to oyu.

Ciao Frank

Well, the main thing is you need to NOT produce so many units. You have limited resources and must work within their limits.

The reason WHY you can go into the negatives is simple..... damaged units. If you max out production, then damaged units will put you in the negative. If you were unable to go into the negative, then you would have to be careful to leave production points (resources and factories) open. If you lost a unit when maxed out, and were unable to go into negative resources, you would see damaged units destroyed. Its set up so you can go negative to give you a little flexability in plannig production and repairing units.

ohh, I missed your point at first. you're saying that you'd prefer that it never allowed you to get into a negative value.

so you' saying that you'd like it if you accidently clicked too much then the computer would notify you that you're going negative?

ORIGINAL: aletoledo

ohh, I missed your point at first. you're saying that you'd prefer that it never allowed you to get into a negative value.

so you' saying that you'd like it if you accidently clicked too much then the computer would notify you that you're going negative?

Actually, it is just plain confusing the way it is. I went negative once, because I saw that I could and figured I'd run with it and see what happens. Then I had to kill the game, read the manual, and start over.

If I understand correctly, if production goes negative the computer will choose units to freeze production on. I haven't done trial and error to figure out which units the computer freezes. But the obvious way to implement this is that the game should force the user to explicitly freeze/unfreeze units and the game would not allow negative production. If production is exceed by newly damaged units in the queue, then those units should enter the queue frozen.

This is something you figure out, but the real point is that you shouldn't have to. The UI could easily enforce this.

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Well, the main thing is you need to NOT produce so many units. You have limited resources and must work within their limits.

The reason WHY you can go into the negatives is simple..... damaged units. If you max out production, then damaged units will put you in the negative. If you were unable to go into the negative, then you would have to be careful to leave production points (resources and factories) open. If you lost a unit when maxed out, and were unable to go into negative resources, you would see damaged units destroyed. Its set up so you can go negative to give you a little flexability in plannig production and repairing units.

Good point. There should be negatives but maybe it shouldn't be in production phase - when players building new units it should be forbidden go to negatives?

Thanks for your answers. Now I understand it better. Nevertheless, it's still confusing that you can add unlimited units to the production queue.

Ciao Frank

when players building new units it should be forbidden go to negatives?

Why? you can use it for planning purposes then adjust as needed. Making it not allowed would result in you having to kill off stuff that was already on the way to being built just to get a look. You generally have to go in and sort this out anyways as units that get damaged end up pushing you into negs for their repairs.

ORIGINAL: Frank Klein
Why can I order a unit to be produced, even if there are not enough ressources/production points left for this unit to be produced? Is this intended? If it's intended: Why?

I still cant believe Matrix can make these kind of errors. The logic is right, but the enduser is obviously led into confusion. Are you sure there couldn't be a way to handle production better?

If matrix wants to appeal a broader audience with this game, please understand that these kind of issues keep people FAR FAR away from this game

Try to imagine the difficulty that can be encountered by an 'occasional' player, or a player accustomed to simpler strategy games... this game is really well done, but some important aspects are really difficult to understand.

I don't see the problem. This is a DESIRABLE feature. It adds flexibility and allows you to stop production on some items in order to add production in subsequent turns, as was often done. This is a GREAT tool for managing long-term production projects in the face of short-term emergencies. I am confused and mystified by the posts here.

I don't see the problem. This is a DESIRABLE feature. It adds flexibility and allows you to stop production on some items in order to add production in subsequent turns, as was often done. This is a GREAT tool for managing long-term production projects in the face of short-term emergencies. I am confused and mystified by the posts here.

I agree completely... About the only thing I think might help is to have the game display a message ( which you can toggle off in the options menu ) that would say something like this:

"Not enough population to produce all units which are ready to finish. Do you want to continue."

and for production points..


"Not enough production points to work on all units in queue. Do you want to continue."

Seems like that should be good enough for beginners.

ORIGINAL: IDrinkBeer

I don't see the problem. This is a DESIRABLE feature. It adds flexibility and allows you to stop production on some items in order to add production in subsequent turns, as was often done. This is a GREAT tool for managing long-term production projects in the face of short-term emergencies. I am confused and mystified by the posts here.

I agree completely... About the only thing I think might help is to have the game display a message ( which you can toggle off in the options menu ) that would say something like this:

"Not enough population to produce all units which are ready to finish. Do you want to continue."

and for production points..


"Not enough production points to work on all units in queue. Do you want to continue."

Seems like that should be good enough for beginners.

Hmm, that actually sounds like a nice feature to have under preferences ... "Warn if Production Capacity is exceeded before ending phase".

or just go all the way to a Auto Positive Production option....[:D]