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Anybody had a chance to use these two odd ducks in a night action? Do they spread death and destruction or are they just paper tigers?

awesome against the Royal navy

Sank Kitakami in a night action off Tawi Tawi in our 3vs3 PBEM. She didn't launch any torps iirc

Hi, I don't get exicited by these two. Since ships fire at 1 other ship they are not all that effective considering their potentional. If torpedos could miss target but still hit other ships then I would consider them more then just another IJN CL. In gun fights they don't do well.

Considering the fact that these are the only 2 ships in IJN that have radar until you can accelerate some radar equipped Yagumo class destroyers out of the shipyards, I think they are too important to risk in surface actions.

ORIGINAL: doktorblood

Considering the fact that these are the only 2 ships in IJN that have radar until you can accelerate some radar equipped Yagumo class destroyers out of the shipyards, I think they are too important to risk in surface actions.

Which is exactly what the Japanese did historically.... [:D]

Thats one of the problems of the game. Gunfire was directed ship to ship. Aircraft attacks were directed at a ship. Submarines were USUALLY directed at a ship (on some occasions over-lapping targets would be fired at hitting multiple targets), but both sides launched torps at the other guys battle line, NOT at an individual ship, AND the unit (flottilla for example) would fire coordinated spreads. This isnt reflected in the game, nor is it likely to be ever.

Hi, I don't get exicited by these two. Since ships fire at 1 other ship they are not all that effective considering their potentional. If torpedos could miss target but still hit other ships then I would consider them more then just another IJN CL. In gun fights they don't do well.

'

feature request for Witp2.. torp ships that are of a certain amount of torps and raiting may fire at multiple targets....

These are among the scariest ships of all time. How would you like to be serving aboard a ship carrying forty torpedo warheads and forty pure oxygen flasks up on deck?

How would you like to be serving aboard a ship carrying forty torpedo warheads and forty pure oxygen flasks up on deck?

If I recall correctly, that's exactly what the Mogami crew was thinking when she jettisoned her torps over the side during an air attack in the Battle of Midway. A bomb landed right were they would have been. The damage would have been catastrophic. She didn't carry no where near as many torps as those CLs but still....

Mikuma didn't jettison her torps and I think they were a big reason why that ship didn't make it back.

Chez

Aren't their radars effectives in surface actions ?
Is it enough to have escorts with radar in CV TFs?Don't you need to have radar on the CV?
Sorry if this have been asked before in other threads.

These ships will be modelized in a better way if they had not 5 * 4 torpedo tubes rather than 20 tubes aiming at the same target. Then they will be able to shot at a whole TF.

As for torpedo being more dangerous for the ships that was carrying them than for their targets, they were one of the main reasons of the CA losses during the Samar battle.

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

These are among the scariest ships of all time. How would you like to be serving aboard a ship carrying forty torpedo warheads and forty pure oxygen flasks up on deck?

I had always thought that these things ran on oxygen, also, however, a book on (mostly US) torpedoes Hellions of the Deep states that they actually ran on concentrated hydrogen peroxide, which was used to produced oxygen (and water) in the engine. The water was actually useful as it helped cool the engine. Of course, this stuff (US called it NAVOL, iirc) was highly dangerous - about as bad as oxygen flasks. Christie developed a US "oxygen" torpedo in the early thirties (iirc) that was far superior to the Mark XIV, however, the Newport Torpedo Factory and Interstate Commerce Commission effectively blocked further development, with the ICC blocking transport of NAVOL on roads, rail, etc. as too hazardous. (Later, they revised this opinion, and allowed it, but not until after the war, iirc). The Navy was in the process of actually developing plans to ship the NAVOL from Niagara Falls, New York (my home town) to Newport by using NAVY ships (getting around the ICC) and taking the stuff across to the Canada, down the Welland Canal, out the Saint Lawrence Seaway, down to coast and over to Newport. These plans were scuttled with the outbreak of the war.

I don't trust this book (Hellions of the Deep) on individual details (like dates), but overall it gives a good amount of technical info on torpedoes, esp. the US torpedo program. The book doesn't give a lot of technical info on the Japanese torpedoes, but at one point does say the ran off the H2O2 (conc. hydrogen peroxide) - so i would be interested if that is correct or incorrect.

Just thinking to it twice, I think Oi and Kitanami may work in the game as they were designed in real life. They were to be used against the US BB line. If we use them in game against a BB TF and they manage to fire once against a BB, this will probably be a goner.

Sadly WITP is unable to modelize torpedo attacks correctly. Most of the times forces with torpedoes and less guns than opponent forces fired torpedoes at max range and then retreated while in UV & WITP they will engage in gun action almost all the times and get blasted to hell, even with careful admirals.

The Japanese got the idea for a oxygen torpedo from the British. [X(]
The British experimented with the oxygen torpedo in the 1920's, when the Japanese were still on good terms with the British. A group of Japanese Officers who were visiting England during the mid 1920's, were shown the experimental instalation. The British abandoned the concept in the early 1930's, as being far to dangerous to be used onboard a ship. But by time they abandoned the idea, the British were no longer talking to the Japanese.
The Japanese seeing that the British (who they modeled their fleet after) had developed a new super torpedo, had to build one of their own. Not knowing the British had abandoned the concept, the Japanese perfected it.[:'(]
The US also experimented with oxygen torpedos during the 1920's and very early 1930's, but abandoned the concept due to cost cutting measures in the 1930's.
To my knowledge, no US torpedo during the WWII time period used hydrogen peroxide as the oxidizer. They all used compressed air as the oxidizer.
What gave the Japanese torpedos their great range and higher speed was the 100% oxygen oxidizer, vs the 21% oxygen found in air. The oxygen produced a hotter combustion, that made higher pressure steam to drive the torpedo, thus more speed. Additionally, since there was almost 5 times the oxygen available in a given space, that gave much greater range.
Regards, Gregg

To my knowledge, no US torpedo during the WWII time period used hydrogen peroxide as the oxidizer. They all used compressed air as the oxidizer.

I believe the US did perfect a torpedo during the war using NAVOL, but it was not used in combat. I'll have to check on the model and dates.

What gave the Japanese torpedos their great range and higher speed was the 100% oxygen oxidizer, vs the 21% oxygen found in air. The oxygen produced a hotter combustion, that made higher pressure steam to drive the torpedo, thus more speed. Additionally, since there was almost 5 times the oxygen available in a given space, that gave much greater range.
Regards, Gregg

Well, this is almost word for word what i claimed in prior posts. Problem is, i have since read that they didn't actually use oxygen per se, but concentrated hydrogen peroxide to produce oxygen. I am trying to find out if this is actually true or not. The US NAVOL torpedoes were referred to as "oxygen torpedoes" (although, again, the oxygen came from the concentrated hydrogen peroxide).

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: doktorblood

Considering the fact that these are the only 2 ships in IJN that have radar until you can accelerate some radar equipped Yagumo class destroyers out of the shipyards, I think they are too important to risk in surface actions.

Which is exactly what the Japanese did historically.... [:D]

Are we saying here that K&O were in effect the "Aegis" Cruisers of the IJN ???

I've certainly never read that anywhere - but would be interested in a source !

If the Japanese did withhold these 2 ships because they were so effective at air warning - why were they never used with Kido Butai. I think most posters believe that K&O will improve air warning over a CV task force in which they are deployed [ I haven't tested this so I can't say for sure ]. And if so then - they probably would be the "Aegis" cruisers of the IJN "IN THE GAME" ... though again I find it hard to believe this represents there true historical capability.

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

These are among the scariest ships of all time. How would you like to be serving aboard a ship carrying forty torpedo warheads and forty pure oxygen flasks up on deck?

Given what other ships acomplished with the weapon, i'd say the risk was justified.

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

These are among the scariest ships of all time. How would you like to be serving aboard a ship carrying forty torpedo warheads and forty pure oxygen flasks up on deck?

Given what other ships acomplished with the weapon, i'd say the risk was justified.

Yea, like they ask the crew if it's ok?

Holland: "Well Boys, I know our armor sucks, but how do you feel about taking on the Bismarck?"

Crew: "Sir, I'd rather return to port, it might be risky."

Holland: "Alrighty then, let me get the Admiralty on the wireless and tell them we are coming home."

[:D]