Chinese Attrition

[Maginot]

Theres nothing nicer then cracking into China as Japan pre-Russia/German war. It exposes the soft underbelly of the Russian beast, and theres little the Russian player can do to prevent it at first. Of course, the ovbious question is how to crack the Chinese lines without expending too much Japanese supplies or units.

I have a theory. Not so much a theory as wild stab in the dark. China starts with 15 supply. The idea here is to attrition Chinese forces to the point of exhaustion. Every turn a region fights in combat it exhausts one supply total. On the first turn you have the potential to attack 4 regions by land and one by air (there may be more, I don't have the map in front of me.) This of course requires sacrficing a decent amount of milita. You can more conservitley attack with air on the first few turns while China moves its forces into their larger armies.

Doing so will also prevent a successful takeover of any assets in the pacific. In short, its a 'Russia' first strategy, with Japan most likley leaving the US alone until the last second.

Basically, the overall idea is to hammer away Chinese supplies via attrition to the point where they no longer have supplies to fight a war with. Assuming you target 3 provinces per turn, you can expend all their supplies in five turns. Its unlikley China will see this coming, and most likley build more supplies.

Ovbiously throwing 15 milita away won't work, but we have some bright people out there. Am I just blowing smoke, or is it indeed possible to get rid of China's supplies. Remember, if your real lucky the Chinese player will be sending units from Sinkiang over, netting you maybe two or four additional supplies down the tube.

Are you shooting yourself in the foot? I'm not sure. However, if the Japanese player does pull some sort of breakthrough off, the consquences could be disasterous from Russia. Japan could bypass most of the Chinese army, sitting their, stuck on its ass. However you ALSO throw away those 3 points from the US...

The more I look at it, the more I don't like it, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway.

[ratprince]

Maginot;

That is an interesting theory. I think it may have some merit if engineered correctly.

I think, a strategy that tends to work the best of "both" worlds is this:

Only use massed air power to destroy ALL of the Chinese forces. It can actually be done relatively inexpensively (limited damaged units) by the end of 1941. Then (or at the same time) completely "RED" all of the resources and factories in china as well. Not a huge step either. Then, simply....leave (except anti-partisan on coast) There will NEVER be a viable chinese threat for the game duration. This leaves Japan to go unmolested into the pacific or into Russia.

This strategy, of course, requires some commitments. ONe, you must produce air power religiously from turn one. Only research torpedoes and ground attack of CAG and build the HECK out of em! I would say I can typically have a dozen or so up to 5 in torp and GA by the beginning of '42. This with China dead (not taken, just impotent) and the SRA open to attack (or Russia).

Just my 4 cents Maginot!

Later!

Mike

[Barthheart]

Yeah... Mike pulled that on me VERY effectively![:@] But I think I have a counter for it. It mostly requires the Wallies to send supplies to China. This will help keep their fac/res alive so that the Japs either give up the bombing or give up on Russia. I think... I have not tried this.... use with extreme caution....[:-]

[Maginot]

Well, my idea is derived from my very first PBEM vs Oleg. Due to some rather 'noobish' tendencies, I moved units around TACTICALLY rather then STRATEGICALLY. By turn three I had seen the massive error on my part, but I was hoping Oleg hadn't. Needless to say, he MASSACARED me, but moving on.

In my scenario, Japan is amassing a giant land force for a Russian squeeze strategy. It would require coordination, as Germany would have to wait for China to be exhausted of supplies. Japan could also stager their attack one season with the German, in hopes the armor unit in Vladvostik is removed. However, its not likley the Russian player wouldn't see this coming, so the Vlad garrison could actually be rather sizable. Assuming you are shooting for a 1942 Spring start, you have eight seasons. If things go picture perfect, thats maybe six to take Japan and two to secure holdings. Japanese forces would avoid Changsa, Chunking, and Kumming, and follow a path from Paotow to Lancho and beyond.

Germany would also be required to sieze Norway, to prevent Western Allies Lend Lease. The Chinese would sit helplessly. Without supplies to repair them, they would lay dormant, along with most of the Chinese Army most likley sitting in Changsa or Chunking!

I'm actually not quite sure what happens when one army attacks a region without supplies. Would the Chinese keep retreating till they disapeared off the map?

[batou]

In the two PBEM games I have played as the allies, I send supplies to China either via USSR or through the SE Asia route... So don't try it against me!! Really, it very easy to counter this strategy and there is nothing the Japanese can do about it without bringing USSR or WAllies into the war early.

[mavraamides]

I've found that China can mostly be ignored by the Japanese.

I focus everything I have on Russia and use Russian resources to fuel my army. The Chinese
with their limited production, inferior units and low supplies can offer very little threat
to the Japanese. Instead of attacking, I simply take the coast and then head north for Russia.

Once a big chunk of Russia is under Japanese rule, the resources and rail are rebuilt, and
the Germans are making good headway in the West, I turn south and finish China off.

Now the Japanese have a large, resource rich and easily defendable territory. This leaves
plenty of production for sub research and production to act as a counter to an eventual American
invasion.

[MikeB]

Having taken the time to PLAY the chinese position one game...i noted that Chinese production is only in Fall and Spring. At 4 production per turn....there is little Chinese can do...without supplies from Western Allies.

I am uncertain how the partisans work or militia creation in China when one combats an area. The Jap AI tends to send a lot of air over China...prior to arrival of Chinese FLAK. Unfortunately, the building and position of 2 flak units...tends to take till 1945 to accomplish. [&:]

In general...after 4 AI games, my sense is that the Jap AI tends to spend excess resources against China. I could understand such....IF "successful" combat experience impacted upon say research in some fashion or per unit influence upon combat.

[Maginot]

On a side note, I have just completed two succesful AI games using this strategy. After cutting off China from supply (via Norway and Fighters) I was able to keep most of the Chinese Army at a complete stand-still. All it took was one turn of them without supply for the Japanese army to steamroll in and take cruical land in the north of China. Due to the lack of rail-roads, it takes Russia at least two turns to move supplies into China. However, two milita and a few infantry ensured the supplies would never make it to the capital. Blocked off from supply, the Chinese twiddle their thumbs until the end of the war.

[5cats]

Hee hee hee, in a PBEM with Japan and China (and Russia) as AI, the Japanese AI has 15 units in Chungking, and they're surrounded & cut off from supply! It's sad to see, lol!