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I updated OOB 83 to adopt some of Michael Wood's suggestions, and to incorporate my post- 8.3 research. The changes are listed below:

Weapons changes:

242 (Reising SMG) -- change name to Reising M50/55

Unit Changes:

1 (M3A1 Scout Car) -- available Jan 1949-end 1949 -- the M3A1 Scout Car was not used by the USMC in the Pacific

14 (M3A1 Stuart) -- available from June 1943- end 1944

22 (M4A1 Sherman) -- available from Dec 1943- end 1945. Oddly enough, the M4A2 (Tarawa) appeared in USMC use before the M4A1 (New Britain)

53 (Jeep 60mm) -- available Jan 1949- end 1949 (unless you really want them in there)

55-- renamed to Scout Jeep

70 thru 73 -- I moved the USN Seabees (139-142) to these slots--this was to better organize the database

87 thru 89 ( 75mm GMC, HMC) -- removed the second 50 cal AAMG-- unit 88 now available from Jan 1943 - end 1945

94 (37mm M3 ATG) -- changed cost to 32--added Misc Small Arms as crew arms

95 (37mm M6 ATG) -- changed cost to 53--available Jan 1949-end 1949--while these were deployed on some tanks, they were not used as wheeled ATGs--the primary USMC ATG from 41-45 was the M3

110 (M2 60mm Mortar), 112 (M1 81mm Mortar) -- changed crew arms to Misc Small Arms. Increased crew to 5 for 60mm, 6 for 81mm (both size 1).

111 (Para Lt Mortar) -- removed

113 (Inf Sqd D-) -- changed weapon 3 to Reising M50/55

114 (Inf Sqd E-) -- shotgun ammo corrected

118, 119, 120 -- (now D#, F#, G#) -- rifle grenade ammo adjusted

126 (Truck Mtd Rockets) -- available May 1944 - end 1949 -- onboard rockets

131 (Inf Sqd D#) -- pre-1942 infantry -- RG ammo adjusted

134 (Inf Sqd F) -- weapon 3 should be M1 Carbine, not M1A2--this was a postwar issue

135 (Inf Sqd F+) -- satchel charge now in slot 3

136 ( Inf Sqd F*) -- flamethrower now in slot 3

139 thru 147 -- I placed all the Raider units in consecutive slots --for most of the 1942 units, the Reising replaces the Thompson

153 thru 156 -- placed the Para units in order of appearance & cost--a couple of units had their weapons adjusted & costs slightly increased

157 & 158 (Aslt Sqds) -- weapons slots changed -- rifle/bazooka/flamethrower/satchel charge

167, 168 & 171 -- MG crew weapons are now misc small arms--crew sizes increased to 5 (size 1)

217 & 218 (LVT 3, Bushmaster) -- available April 1945 -end 1946 -- due to production delays, not used until Okinawa

223 (LVT A4) -- available April 1945 -end 1949

224 (DUKW) -- available Jan 1944 - end 1949

Formations Changes:

This is what I changed the most from 8.3. The Rifle/Weapons Companies are now closer to the actual TOEs, which creates a separate series of
problems. Each reorganization from 1942 to 1944 decentralized the concentration of heavy weapons/MGs in the Weapons Companies, with more
firepower being allocated either directly to the Rifle Companies or held in weapons pools under regimental control. In 1944, the Battalion Weapons Company was eliminated.

As an alternative, I have numerous subunits which allow for a more flexible combat team, so one is not "locked into" purchasing whole Companies.

In particular, note the very unwieldy Weapons Company D of 1942. In reality, it was broken down into its component platoons and distributed
as necessary to the Rifle Companies in combat. I debated on whether to even put this monster into the OOB, but it did exist. I'll add more detail as I discuss the
changes.

1002 & 1003 (Armored Car Sec & Plt) -- available Jan 1949- end 1949.

1010, 1011 & 1013 (Med Tank Sec, Plt & Co) -- available Oct 1943- end 1949.

1021 & 1022 (AFV Landing Sec & Grp) -- available Oct 1943- end 1949.

1025 thru 1029 (Mot & Armd Recon) -- available Jan 1949- end 1949.

1040 (Scout Jeep) -- new-- one scout jeep. This costs more than the standard jeep, as it is classed as a scout vehicle and has more speed. This
vehicle replaces the M3A1 Scout Car for mounting Recon Infantry.

1041 -- renamed to Scout Jeep Sec.

1061 & 1062 (DUKW Sec & Plt) -- available Jan 1944- end 1949.

1067 (30/50 Cal AAMG) -- new-- a single AAMG.

1074 (1Bn Raider Plt) -- different squad mix.

1076 (Raider Hvy W Pl) -- added two Boys ATR.

1077 (Raider Hvy W Co) -- added two Raider Demo Sec and an Inf-AT Sec.

1078 (2Bn Raider Plt) -- different squad mix.

1079 (2Bn Raider Co) -- to show actual TOE.

1080 -- renamed to Raider MMG Sec -- two MMGs.

1081 (Para Plt) -- different squad mix, replaced mortar with MMG.

1083 (Para Co) -- replaced MG Plt with Lt Mortar Sec.

1084 (Raider Dem Sec) -- two Raider Dem sqd.

1087 (Engineer Sec) -- now two Eng Sec DC.

1090 (Inf Co D+) -- this is the customized reinforced company I use in my long campaigns. This is a notional example of how battalion/regiment
assets were attached to rifle companies in field operations during 1942.

1093 (Inf Plt D) -- removed the MMG, different squad mix.

1094 (Inf Co D) -- replaced HMG Section with MMG Section.

1095 (Weapons Co D) -- in 1942, the battalion's heavy weapons were all under one HQ. This is the actual TOE, with four 81mm mortars, four ATGs
and 24 HMGs--there were also two 50 cal HMGs, but not enough room for them! In actual practice, though, the platoons were attached to
the rifle companies as needed.

1096 & 1097 ( Inf Plt E & E*) -- removed MMG.

1098 & 1099 (Inf Co E & E*) -- added five MMGs.

1100 (Weapons Co E) -- actual TOE, with four 81mm Mortars, a Bazooka Section, and 12 HMGs.

1101 thru 1103 ( Inf Plt F, F+ and F*) --removed MMGs & bazookas.

1104 thru 1106 (Inf Co F, F+ and F*) -- with the dissolution of the Battalion Weapons Company in 1944, the MGs & bazookas
were attached directly to the rifle companies.

1119 (Wepn MG Section) -- removed Plt HQ.

1126 (Wepn Plt E) -- removed. Assets placed under Weapons Co E.

1132 (Artillery Bn) -- now four batteries (two 75mm, two 105mm).

1133 & 1134 (OB Rockets, Truck Rockets) -- available May 1944-end 1949.

1142 & 1143 (on-board Truck Rockets) -- available May 1944-end 1949.

1184 (LVT) -- new-- a single LVT.

Write me if you want a copy of the new OOB--necessary additions include the new vehicle icons by Losqualo (available at the Depot) and selected pics from Panzer Leo's H2Hfr.

Personal note to RayM: I just sent a copy of this new OOB to you. I think you'll like the changes.

Note: after all this, I noticed a potential problem. With the increase of the 81mm mortar crew to 6 men, the carry cap of Jeeps is inadequate (105). So, I either have to increase the Jeep's carry cap to 106, or else you will have to mount the 81s on light trucks to give them any mobility.

Boy, oh boy. [:o] Now, if I simply increase the Jeep carry cap, then you have the ability to mount your HQ unit or the 6-man LR Patrols.

What do you guys think?

When I was driving an M151,we could carry 6..
I am NOT gonna tell ya' what all we did do with M151's though!
You would not believe me,suffice it to say I am still alive and it was a RUSH!

Hello KG,

Email with new OOB83 received. Very nice and thank you for the continued tailoring.

Regarding the Jeep capacity adjustment. Do what you think is best., but.......

Having the flexibility to carry 6 is not unrealistic but it would certainly be cramped and not very tactical. But in a pinch (particularly in a retrograde action) being able to pile in a Jeep is welcome. Also, I suppose that you strap things to the hood or hold them in your lap. But again how practical and how tactical? As most people would say... it depends on the situation.......

Thanks,

RayM

Ok, I think I'll leave the jeeps as is. These could tow a Pack Howitzer or a 37mm ATG, or carry a 60mm light mortar, but the 81mm is a different story. This is why the Raider & Para units didn't have the 81s in their TOEs, because of their lack of mobility.

One more thing, though. I didn't get to do the Fire Control & Range Finder adjustments as listed by Michael Wood--changing these will require going through the entire database for ALL OOBs. This will also affect the game balance, but it may be worthwhile doing just that. I'm thinking that the MGs will be more effective than before, while reducing the overall effect of small-arms at long range (except for snipers). All of this should give the game another realism boost.

If you want to do this yourself, then be my guest. I'm going to go through the Japanese & USMC OOBs (once again), adjust the FC & RF values, and do some testing.

Is this the OOB you sent me?
Looks good!

Alby, the version I sent you retains the units you added/deleted, plus your selection of lbms & pics. My personal version is slightly different, but the essential changes are the same.

As for adopting the older FC/RF values as proposed by Michael, I elected to forgo doing this. I DID, however, change the rifle grenade/bazooka values as he suggested.

I'm looking forward to testing how this works out with Michael's updated mech.exe, which I'll call SPWaW 8.4. The last change to the mech.exe was for 8.2, and is dated 4/2/04.

It didnt come thru
only the text file.

I hope he changes the Mech to bring back the casualties to vehicle riders when the vehicle gets hit
I dont know why they ever took that out!![:-]

Alby, I'm still at the office. I'll resend the OOB when I get home--in about an hour.

cool thanks
The file that came thru was wierd, just sort of computer symbols
[X(]

Sorry, man. I just sent it to you again, this time as a zip file (which I should've done in the first place).

Got it, looks good
it will be in next MOD release
Thanks Pal
and Remember The Alamo!!

Great. Thanks, Alby. [:)]

For the Marines of WWII, though, it's Remember Wake Island, Guam and Corregidor!

you got it!!

After all
Wake Island was "The Alamo of the Pacific"
[:)]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

I am NOT gonna tell ya' what all we did do with M151's though!
You would not believe me,suffice it to say I am still alive and it was a RUSH!

Too funny. Although I never got 6 into mine (too many radios) we did manage to roll it over on its side in Germany on numerous occasions. They were so light we would just climb out roll it back over and hit the road again.

LOL DD you sort of beat me to it yes a Jeep could carry six, in a straigt line, try to make a turn and it will turn into Evil Kineval ( spelling)highlight

Good work on the OOBs KG, you fix something with out knowing it

OOB Experiment: I restored the RGs and Bazookas back to 8.3 values, and tried an experiment with a company of F-series Marines (with RGLs & bazookas) defending against a German Panzergrenadier Company and a couple of Pz IVH platoons.

I made mincemeat of those Germans, knocking off 8 Pz IVs with the zooks and a couple of hits with the 8.3 weapon 94 RG (these have a HEAT Pen of 100, but maybe this value should be 75 after all?). The Panzergrenadiers were no match for the Garands, BARs and the 30 cal MMGs I attached to the Gyrenes. So, take that, German fans. [;)]

In any case, I think I made a mistake in making retrograde changes to the RGs/Zooks. The 8.3 values are fine as they are.

However, one of the best changes I made (IMHO) was increasing the size of MMG crews to 5, size 1. I'll do the same for the other OOBs. All light mortar crews should also have a crew of 5, and 81mm mortars a crew of six--this will not prevent the Germans from being able to carry two med mortars on an Opel Blitz.

More battle testing: I set up a USMC assault vs Japan, April 1945 (an Okinawa-type scenario). Before even encountering any bunker defenses, some of my F+ squads (the ones with the flamethrowers) have already suffered 60% casualties against entrenched Japanese squads/MGs. [X(] Given that, the direct support of the M4A3s and POA Flametanks is invaluable, and it proves to me that while the USMC armed their rifle squads as assault teams by '45, they needed every piece of demolitions/flame weapons they could get their hands on. The 5-man MG teams are now tougher to kill--they may retreat, but will set up again and wreak more havoc until they are completely destroyed.


This also proves to me that the latter days of the Pacific War featured the most intense and horrific close-quarters combat of the entire WWII period. If this what you want to experience, then here it is.

One more item on the rifle-grenades. Even those with an HE pen of 14 but no HEAT or AP pen (USMC weapon 93 in 8.3--the early-war M1) CAN destroy light tanks, such as the Japanese Type 95 Ha-Go (frontal armor 12). The later M9 ATRG (AP Pen 222, HEAT pen 75) is in weapons slot 94. For my purposes, I'll use these values.

PS I strongly recommend keeping an ammo truck nearby if you plan on using on-board Truck Rockets, because they fire off their entire ammo load in one barrage.

Alright, after another review of other nations' OOBs, I found something that has bothered me for some time --the Recon Patrols' armaments. I have seen pictures of recon patrols in the jungle, and there is always at least one guy armed with an SMG--this is what is missing. Also, the hand grenade loadout seems low.

Therefore, in my new OOB, I will suggest adding the weapon 242 (the Reising SMG) in slot two of unit 163--30 rounds. Also, make the hand grenade loadout 4, not 3, in slot three. Do the same for unit 164, but weapon 2 should be the Thompson.

I would suggest doing the same for the US Army OOB--you have two different 4-man patrols, one with Garands, one with Thompsons. I think they should be combined into one unit with BOTH weapons.

Remember, for a 4-man unit, one could conceivably allow for 4 different weapons. The number of weapons can't exceed the number of men--a common-sense rule.

Given this, I could allow for the creation of a separate 4-man fire team of the F-series 1944-45 squads. (One Thompson, one BAR, and two M1 Garands, one with a RGL.) I'm still thinking about including this in the OOB. Bill already did this in one of his Iwo scenarios.

Does anyone want a sub-unit of this type included? Scenario designers might like it. My only argument against this is that they would not have recon ability, and would be very fragile--the idea of breaking down line-infantry squads for generating battles is probably not needed.