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Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:02 pm
by m10bob
Hey guys.....I don't think many of us can expect to go to Toys R Us,or a similar toy store and purchase a game (like Monopoly),and expect the game company to move "Park Place" or make other changes,just because we think the game has a problem,(real or imagined).
Matrix has (over the years) attempted to collect reports of possible flaws in their games,and over time,have (at their cost) tried to correct the ones that were financially feasable to do so.
We,(the gamers/purchaser),have come to expect they will listen,and unfortunately some of us have gotten rather demanding in our complaints.(Maybe we have gotten spoiled?)..
With other games,if we don't like it,we can put it back in the box and let it collect dust.We can do the same here,but a very few of us go beyond that and have openly demanded changes in the "guts" of the game itself,way past the development stage.It's no longer critique of "what unit goes where or when",but "why does the game have to be presented with electricity when nuclear oscilliscopes are available?(Well,that's really not far off the mark,actually.Some of the gamers have taken to making provocative statements against agents of the firm,and several folks have gone on record to say they can't accept the negativity any longer.
Just saying "adios" to these fellow gamers is not an option.This is NOT our forum.It is paid for by Matrix.We are here at THEIR option.They have rules,and frankly have been overly lenient with some of the "HABITUAL COMPLAINERS"....
If we do have legitimate problems to report,we should report them,giving the version of the game,whether FOW is on or not,whether this is a "stock" game,or one that has been "modded".(Ya know,a couple of "mods" overlapping each other just might be causing some of the problems?)..
Let's not bite the hand that furnishes our "game needs".
This is only my opinion,but if Matrix,(or the people here) are no longer holding your interest,be an adult and be gone.
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:04 pm
by m10bob
ORIGINAL: m10bob
Hey guys.....I don't think many of us can expect to go to Toys R Us,or a similar toy store and purchase a game (like Monopoly),and expect the game company to move "Park Place" or make other changes,just because we think the game has a problem,(real or imagined).
Matrix has (over the years) attempted to collect reports of possible flaws in their games,and over time,have (at their cost) tried to correct the ones that were financially feasable to do so.
We,(the gamers/purchaser),have come to expect they will listen,and unfortunately some of us have gotten rather demanding in our complaints.(Maybe we have gotten spoiled?)..
With other games,if we don't like it,we can put it back in the box and let it collect dust.We can do the same here,but a very few of us go beyond that and have openly demanded changes in the "guts" of the game itself,way past the development stage.It's no longer critique of "what unit goes where or when",but "why does the game have to be presented with electricity when nuclear oscilliscopes are available?(Well,that's really not far off the mark,actually.Some of the gamers have taken to making provocative statements against agents of the firm,and several folks have gone on record to say they can't accept the negativity any longer.
Just saying "adios" to these fellow gamers is not an option.This is NOT our forum.It is paid for by Matrix.We are here at THEIR option.They have rules,and frankly have been overly lenient with some of the "HABITUAL COMPLAINERS"....
If we do have legitimate problems to report,we should report them,giving the version of the game,whether FOW is on or not,whether this is a "stock" game,or one that has been "modded".(Ya know,a couple of "mods" overlapping each other just might be causing some of the problems?)..
Let's not bite the hand that furnishes our "game needs".
This is only my opinion,but if Matrix,(or the people here) are no longer holding your interest,be an adult but please be gone.
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 5:11 pm
by sadja
Amen, enjoy the game and quite whinning, its a game play it as such.
Sadja
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 10:57 pm
by rogueusmc
I didn't know there were Hoosiers who could type that much and make it sound intelligent...lol
I agree whole-heartedly.
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Mon May 09, 2005 11:27 pm
by Rocco
Well, I'm from Illinois, and that's the first time I agreed with a Hoosier! [:D] Just Kidding guy!
I'm going through my first PBEM as Japan right now, and there's so many options available, that there's no possible way that this game can turn out historically accurate. The mere thought is ludicrous.
Sure, maybe this plane should be better than it's stats indicate, and so on and so forth. That can be argued 'til the end of time. But in the end, I think we have the best wargame available, hands down. Enjoy it while you can.
Rocco
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 12:29 am
by 2Stepper
Always nice to see a lil thread putting out the well deserved kudos for creating this wonderful monster!! [:D][8D]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:03 am
by Charles2222
Little or nothing gets fixed without complainers; sad but true. Those who don't complain should show a little appreciation for those who do, because if everybody just sat back and ignored any anomolies that come along, they might as well be playing Monopoly.
I know I'm appreciative of complainers when my power goes down, and in fact sometimes I'm actually one of them who calls. Do those who complain about complainers (which I often find worse than complaining about something that's wrong) ever bother to call when the power goes down themselves? If they're consistent they don't, but then complaining about complainers makes one a complainer. So what style of complaining 's more productive: Wanting people to shut up or wanting something to get fixed?
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:04 am
by madflava13
I think games like WiTP run in cycles. There's those of us who have been lurking or posting since the beginning, and when we finally got our hands on this puppy, we were happy just to have it. Any bug fixes or added features were just icing on the cake and you wouldn't hear a peep out of us otherwise.
Then there's the group that comes in when the game is closer to being released - these people look at the game more critically (not necessarily in a bad way) since they haven't been waiting as long and therefore aren't as likely to "just be happy to be there."
Finally there are those who come in well after the game's release. A lot of these people in my experience are not your typical grognard. These are people who read a review somewhere now that WiTP has gotten some accolades, and they went and bought it. Oftentimes these people are customers who honestly shouldn't have gotten the game - they are biting off more than they can chew and just don't know it yet. It's this last group that then comes in and raises hell because the game's "broken" or "junk."
In my experience the biggest whiners are often people with 3 posts to their name, recently joined the forum, and will not offer anything more than these complaints. They'll start a flame and disappear.
If you're going to complain about something, do so constructively - Brady and Ron for example have been highly critical at times, and even when I disagree I respect their opinions because they're in for the long haul and want to make the game better. (And I hate to admit it, but they've even been right a lot...)
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:12 am
by Halsey
So when my Chinese Corps with an AV of 6000 attacks your ground forces, don't say a thing. Working as designed.[:D][:D]
And yes, submarines are now bomb magnets.[:D][:D][;)]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 3:17 am
by madflava13
I won't, since I'm an Allied fanboy! [;)]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:01 am
by moses
BTW Halsey. I just confirmed your bug. My Japanese 18th Division will now kick your Chinese Corps butt.[;)]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:27 am
by m10bob
Charles,you might want to re-read my post,if you missed something the first time.It's not against legit reports of problems,(in fact I even included a suggested format for that).It's against the guys who are flogging a dead horse just to fulfill their own needs for recognition,(or whatever).
I appreciate *legitimate* reports,but running 5 consecutive threads on the same *percieved* problem is just way out of line.Give it a rest,and defending THOSE guys just serves no purpose here,neither for the game,nor the "silent majority" of the forum..l
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:40 am
by Halsey
[&o] Thanks moses!
At least I'm not alone now![:D]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 4:48 am
by m10bob
Have not worn sandals since the '60's...[:D]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:00 am
by pasternakski
ORIGINAL: m10bob
Have not worn sandals since the '60's...[:D]
Don't you get rocks between your toes?
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:01 am
by Halsey
No problem bob![:D]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:02 am
by pasternakski
ORIGINAL: m10bob
It's against the guys who are flogging a dead horse just to fulfill their own needs
Film at 11.
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 5:08 am
by Halsey
ORIGINAL: pasternakski
ORIGINAL: m10bob
It's against the guys who are flogging a dead horse just to fulfill their own needs
Film at 11.
You are a riot![:D][:D][:D]
Best laugh I've had all day![;)]
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:49 am
by Charles2222
ORIGINAL: m10bob
Charles,you might want to re-read my post,if you missed something the first time.It's not against legit reports of problems,(in fact I even included a suggested format for that).It's against the guys who are flogging a dead horse just to fulfill their own needs for recognition,(or whatever).
I appreciate *legitimate* reports,but running 5 consecutive threads on the same *percieved* problem is just way out of line.Give it a rest,and defending THOSE guys just serves no purpose here,neither for the game,nor the "silent majority" of the forum..l
Yes, bob, I don't think I read the whole thing. The first paragraph and some of the emphasized words gave me an impression. Perhaps you've made such complaints before, elsewhere, such that I pretty much suspected what was coming. In any event I've responded, started all over, and then started all over again, and I'm sick of it. Have fun with your soapbox.
RE: Fixing problems and reporting same.
Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 11:14 am
by Halsey
I'll be happy when the real game bugs ARE fixed.[;)]
AI supply movement to bases with zero requested.
LCU recombination morphing.
Allied combat replay.
Follow LCU movement mismatching distances.
Any I missed? That are true bugs, of course.[;)]
Quit adding player requested features.
We all know that this is the way the game is gonna be.