Matrix Games Forums

Greetings. Im wondering of the excellent War in Europe will be available for the BiN game too [&o][&o].........It reminds me of Fire in the East, an old GDW game I played in the 70s :) tks yourpalPhal. I have a mint copy of Scorched Earth the sister game to Fire in the East, I never played it :).

ORIGINAL: phalanx

Greetings. Im wondering of the excellent War in Europe will be available for the BiN game too [&o][&o].........It reminds me of Fire in the East, an old GDW game I played in the 70s :) tks yourpalPhal. I have a mint copy of Scorched Earth the sister game to Fire in the East, I never played it :).

No... One of the significant changes for BII is the much larger map size.

Forget War in Europe!! If you can't resurrect destroyed units it will never work!!

Don't expect that to be happening. The BiI engine can hardly handle that battle! (Hexes 1,1 to 198,175 while BiN has 1,1 to 88,68!)
But Capt Cliff, think before you post. Think how much work was put in WiE. For starters, i bet you couldn't even make the map (paint). Secondly, there is a MASSIVE OOB and i bet you could never put that together. (while saying this, i can't do any of these.)

Hey Sport, all I said is that if you can't rebuild destroyed units WiE it is not viable! Think before you post or ridicule or belittle, or run off at the mouth ... Sport! Professor Langley built a fine aeroplane but it did not FLY! Anyway how the fire truck do you know what I can do or can't do, ... sport. Besure to engage brain before opening mouth next time. SPORT!

Im not sure about the whole "destroyed units" thing. The Germans never rebuilt destroyed units (cept 21st pz) that I can think of. 15th pz was destroyed at Stalingrad, but came back as 15th pz grenadiers.
Anyone else wanna weigh in on this(JSS)? I could be wrong, Ive only been studying WW2 for 30 years[&o][&o]...

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff
..........If you can't resurrect destroyed units it will never work!!

Why not?

"It" is a wonderful wargaming engine.

Why wont "it" work?

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In the real war, the Germans wouldnt resurrect destroyed units (excepting 21st- the only exception I can think of).....they wold create new unit designations. In order to keep the unit density of War in Europe at a proper level, you would bring in more units,but with higher designations. Thats how the Germans( I.E.) would get such high infantry and panzer designations. Like the 328th inf or 23 Panzer divisions.
As far as I know, no U.S. division was destroyed in the ETO. A combat command was destroyed in Tunisia, A regimental equivalent was destroyed at Omaha, and two regiments were destroyed on the Schnee Eifel, But no whole divisions. Some Ranger battalions were destroyed at Salerno etc. When Hitler Flippantly declared war on the U.S. he would've been surprised to know this hehe

12th SS Panzer was destroyed in Normandy! It went into Normandy with 20,000 men and recrossed the Siegfried line in August/Setember 1944 with 300 rifles and no equipment. They rebuilt it time for the Bulge, where it was badly mauled by the VT fused arty rounds near Elsenborne! 9th and 10th SS PZ was sent to Arnhem to be rebuilt, but they were interrupted by Monty. Panzer Lehr was also destroyed in Normandy ... the list goes on!

WiE with the BIN engine would be hard without the ability to rebuild destroyed units.

There's a number of ways rebuilt units can be done in BiN or BII. BII has significant additional features for doing this. Requires the scenario designer to enable units to either be replaced (assumes they get eliminated) or be rebuilt (assumes they retain at least one step).

BIN cannot handle the WiE map. No way to do WiE in BIN; its a BII only scenario.

ORIGINAL: Capt Cliff
.......would be hard without the ability to rebuild destroyed units.

I don’t get it.

Example: the 875 grenadiers unit (fictional) was historically destroyed at location “A” and at date “1”.

And historically, it was re-formed and again named the 875 grenadiers. It was formed at location “B” at became operational at date “2”.

In the game, at time “1”, the player moved the unit to location “W” and so it was never destroyed.

The scenario designer has done his research and intends the new 875 grenadiers to enter the game at location “B” at date “2” as was historically the case.

We reach date “2” to find we have 2 units each named the 875 Grenadiers.

Obviously the new unit needs to be named, by the scenario designer, 8751 Grenadiers, entering the map at location “B: and at time “2”
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The game keeps track of destroyed units. So it should be pretty simple to resurrect them since the program has the data. I've had a regement of the Big Red 1 destroy on Omaha beach, wiped out, so from then on it was short a regement. That would not have happened. The U.S. Army would have bent all the rule to flush out a NEW regement and use the same name and attach it to the 1st! I don't know what happened to the 106th during the Bulge, but I think they rebuilt the lost regements from replacements.

Aaah....Im convinced now that destroyed units should be able to be rebuilt-over time. Im talkn at least 6 mos to rebuild a unit. Thats outside the scope of BiN but not War in Europe. I love the concept of War in Europe but dont own biI yet.I still need to be convinced. Some of my concerns are-can you break divisions down into regiments in WiE...Destroyed units seems to be a concern now too. I used to really be into games like Third Reich and Fortress Europa, and Russian Campaign-thats where my wargaming background comes from. I know this dates me, but I suspect most of the peeps who own BiN-BiI are ex-boardgame payers too. So we would like computer games like third Reich which War in Europe seems to be. Although still with not the same flexibility as Third Reich was, such as starting in 1939 and letting the Germans initiate hostilities. Dont get me wrong WiE seems Excellent.! I just need a little more convincing 1st B4 I buy

WiE is a single scenario and free download. And it only runs under BiI.

BiN and BiI are operational level games, like the old V-for Victory series. Third Reich is strategic level.

If you are an old board wargamer you will enjoy both.

If you are new to wargaming you will enjoy both

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Fire in the East and Scorched Earth started as DNO which had to be redone because it had spawned the Euoropa Series.

But the game that BiN reminds me of is the AH classic monster game Longest Day.

Board games rule...

PBEM comes close...