Matrix Games Forums

the poor ki-43 is not living up to its historical reputation in my game:

Day Air attack on Singapore , at 22,51

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 55
Ki-51 Sonia x 18
Ki-46-II Dinah x 2

Allied aircraft
Hawk 75A x 3
Brewster 339D x 18
Buffalo I x 19
P-40E Warhawk x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 30 destroyed
Ki-51 Sonia: 14 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Brewster 339D: 2 damaged
Buffalo I: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing at 2000 feet


mmm that cant be right can it, this is one of many combat reports where the Oscar under performed playing CHS 1.02.

OUCH! That's some pasting those Oscars took! It wasn't a very good plane, but THAT seems excessive.

IMHO the Zero maneuverability bonus should be shared by the Oscar, Nate and Claude. However we cannot access the code so this is not possible...

FWIW I agree with my esteemed opponent.

I find that Oscar 1bs do well enough provided that they are being flown by high exp (over 70) pilots.

Ouch. Is that the AVG that's participating?

Wow, how did Ki 43Ibs manage to shoot down that many allied fighters??!![X(]

But seriously, look - the Ki's were actually outnumbered here, probably got bounced also, and I would suspect that they had a pilot quality disadvantage vs the allies in this particular fight.

Throw in an unlucky die roll and something like that could happen from time to time.

Was this typical of a great many air combats you've seen in your game?

B

Thanks for posting these results.

I agree with Alikchi that the other 4 mnvr fighters should have had the Zero bonus.

Mike

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

Thanks for posting these results.

I agree with Alikchi that the other 4 mnvr fighters should have had the Zero bonus.

Mike

OH! Absolutely NOT!!!!

The Zero Bonus is ABSURD![:@]

The pilot skill is already there! The aircraft stats are already there! An added BONUS is UNSUPORTABLE as a matter of PHYSICS![:@]

What's it supposed to mean? "We didn't do our stats correctly?" "All the rules of physics don't apply to ZEROES or other Jap planes?!"

Ok, sorry for the emotion - but THAT is a BAD ..."House Rule" from Matrix.

It's not physics, it's virtual reality. [:)]

BigB,

I repectfully disagree. Using tricks to show different fighting qualities has been a trick in the wargame designers arsenal for years.

The interwar allied training did not emphasize speed or diving ability. Their training emphasized turning ability.
Units in this game are given a maneuver rating based on speed, turning ability, banking ability, roll rate, zoom climb speed and dive rate. Also steady gun platform and a few other things effect these ratings.

If we removed the Zero bonus we would need to either include Allied aircraft for the first 6 months with their mnvr ratings calculated without speed or dive rate included. This would bring the P40 down to about a 28.
Or we could lower the experience of all allied pilots by 10. I do not like that option as these were not terrible pilots in most cases. They were not crashing their plane operationaly every time they took off. They were just unable to cope with the highly trained, often experienced Japanese pilots flying aircraft that the Allies did not imagine could exist.

So, i like the zero bonus and i think it should have been applied to all 4 of the highly maneuverable Japanese pre war fighters.
As it is applied only to the Zero, the Zero out performs and the Ki27 and Ki43 under perform.

Mike

Mike,
I know we will continue to disagree on this one, but consider - Japanese pilots are generally rated vastly higher than allied pilots for the first six months (bonus duration), and because everyone has done a wonderful job of researching OBs, the Japanese also enjoys a huge numerical advantage at that stage - as they actually did.

From what I have seen, those two factors alone ensure Japanese air superiority in most battles for the first six months - as is historical.

All the bonus seems to do is make it impossible for the allied player to do anything for the first few months - except get slaughtered. And that is not historically accurate.

It will never change - the bonus is here to stay. But a great many of us hate it.

Instead of spreading the bonus, why couldn't the bonus be a player option instead?

ORIGINAL: Big B

Mike,
I know we will continue to disagree on this one, but consider - Japanese pilots are generally rated vastly higher than allied pilots for the first six months (bonus duration), and because everyone has done a wonderful job of researching OBs, the Japanese also enjoys a huge numerical advantage at that stage - as they actually did.

From what I have seen, those two factors alone ensure Japanese air superiority in most battles for the first six months - as is historical.

All the bonus seems to do is make it impossible for the allied player to do anything for the first few months - except get slaughtered. And that is not historically accurate.

It will never change - the bonus is here to stay. But a great many of us hate it.

Instead of spreading the bonus, why couldn't the bonus be a player option instead?

its a shame this one cant be changed in the editor. then everyone could get what they want....

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Big B

Mike,
I know we will continue to disagree on this one, but consider - Japanese pilots are generally rated vastly higher than allied pilots for the first six months (bonus duration), and because everyone has done a wonderful job of researching OBs, the Japanese also enjoys a huge numerical advantage at that stage - as they actually did.

From what I have seen, those two factors alone ensure Japanese air superiority in most battles for the first six months - as is historical.

All the bonus seems to do is make it impossible for the allied player to do anything for the first few months - except get slaughtered. And that is not historically accurate.

It will never change - the bonus is here to stay. But a great many of us hate it.

Instead of spreading the bonus, why couldn't the bonus be a player option instead?

its a shame this one cant be changed in the editor. then everyone could get what they want....

Actually Tanaka, the Zero bonus can easily be done away with using the editor.

ORIGINAL: Big B

Actually Tanaka, the Zero bonus can easily be done away with using the editor.

How? I've used the editor and I don't see that function in there.

bc

ORIGINAL: Big B

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: Big B

Mike,
I know we will continue to disagree on this one, but consider - Japanese pilots are generally rated vastly higher than allied pilots for the first six months (bonus duration), and because everyone has done a wonderful job of researching OBs, the Japanese also enjoys a huge numerical advantage at that stage - as they actually did.

From what I have seen, those two factors alone ensure Japanese air superiority in most battles for the first six months - as is historical.

All the bonus seems to do is make it impossible for the allied player to do anything for the first few months - except get slaughtered. And that is not historically accurate.

It will never change - the bonus is here to stay. But a great many of us hate it.

Instead of spreading the bonus, why couldn't the bonus be a player option instead?

its a shame this one cant be changed in the editor. then everyone could get what they want....

Actually Tanaka, the Zero bonus can easily be done away with using the editor.

how? so it can be done away with but not added to???

Oh, I know. You just move the Zero to a different slot. (and adjust all the air groups.) The bonus is tied to one specific slot.

bc

ORIGINAL: Bradley7735

Oh, I know. You just move the Zero to a different slot. (and adjust all the air groups.) The bonus is tied to one specific slot.

bc

Bingo!
That is exactly how you do it...it's a piece of cake.[:D]
Just be thorough in combing through the air groups that use the A6M2 and make sure you get them all.

B

The only thing i can say BigB is refrence the first post in this thread about the Allies being slaughtered.

Mike

ORIGINAL: Lemurs!

The only thing i can say BigB is refrence the first post in this thread about the Allies being slaughtered.

Mike

Well, around Dec 20 - 29 1941, over Rangoon, AVG P40s and British Buffalos did inflict a few serious reversals on the Japanese for the first time in the war. It was the first time that the allies had the numbers to compete somewhere around even odds with Japanese fighters...and they did pepper them pretty good - the Japanese called off daylight bombing raids on Rangoon for a few weeks.


(that would be impossible to reproduce in this game with the 'bonus' in play)

The Japanese bonus rules are GG's interpretation of Japanese invulnerability at the start of the war.

He read it in some obscure book many many moons ago.
I'm sure it's been out of print for years, because I can't find it.[:D]