Page 1 of 1
CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:18 pm
by Hoplosternum
I am looking for some help and advice regarding CVs and their air groups for a mod I am planning.
The size of CV air groups changes over the course of the game. For example the size of the US fighter wings on their CVs. In UV (but I don't know about WitP) the relative amounts of TBP, DBP and FTRs changed over time also.
In the database there does not seem to be any way to set the numbers for a Carrier based air group (?) If I wanted to add some extra Carriers how does the size of the air groups get reflected?
If I change the capacity of a CV does it's Air group size change too? I am interested in trying to model deck parking and I would like to do this by changing the Capacity of a CV after a refit. Does anyone know whether the attached Air groups will expand to fill out the extra Capacity? Or should I add another Squadron as a reinforcement at about the time of the upgrade?
I want to add extra CVs of certain classes and even create new classes of CVs. I can add the extra air groups but how can I set their size and/or the split between the types? The splits don't seem to be standard by nation as, for example, some of the Japanese have no DBP components and others do. Or is there just a division between CVs, CVLs and CVEs? What would happen if I created a Japanese CV with a capacity of about 30. Would it have 10 FTRs, 10 DBPs and 10TBPs or can I decide the split and how do I do this?
Any help and advice appreciated [:)]
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:14 pm
by Captain Cruft
I don't know, this aspect seems to be quite random. Testing is possibly your only option. Make some CVs and air groups then mess around with the start date of the scen and see what happens.
The only date I know about for auto-airgroup size changes is Aug 1942.
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:26 pm
by DuckofTindalos
ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum
What would happen if I created a Japanese CV with a capacity of about 30. Would it have 10 FTRs, 10 DBPs and 10TBPs or can I decide the split and how do I do this?
You can control this exactly by defining the maximum number of airplanes in each air group onboard the carrier. This is done in the DB editor when you create the air group. So on your Jap 30-plane CV, you can just as easily have 13 fighters, 12 dive bombers and 5 torpedo planes.
Here, the max number is used to make sure that this flight of planes aboard Jap CA Maya doesn't expand out of control.
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:29 pm
by witpqs
I think I remember reading a posting by a moderator that the changes in sizes of the USN carriers is hard-coded in. Not sure how this would affect your plans.
Maybe a moderator or developer could chime in here?
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:09 pm
by Widell
I added the original question and comments to the
wiki. Feel free to update and add as needed
/Robert
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:38 am
by tanjman
I did some testing with USN & RN CVs, CVLs and CVEs. Here is what I found out:
Max size seems to work for USN and RN CVLs and CVEs but not the CVs. So you can have their CAGs set up any way you want.
USN CV: Do not like having more than one fighter, squadron onboard. The total aircraft quickly exceeds the carriers capacity by as much as 20%. This happens because the size of the fighter sqn keeps increasing on set dates. You can replace on of the dive bomber squadrons with a fighter bomber or night fighter squadron. If you do you will have the following CAG:
Fighters = 27 (12/41 - 6/42) 36 (7/42 to 12/43)
Fighter Bomber/Night Fighter = 18
Dive Bomber = 18
Torpedo Bomber = 15 (12/41 - 12/42) 18 (1/43 on)
RN CV: Work fine with 1 fighter sqn (40%), 1 fighter bomber sqn (25%) and one torpedo bomber sqn (25%) up to 90% of capacity.
I haven't gotten around to testing IJN Carriers yet. I will Post the results when I do.
ORIGINAL: Hoplosternum
I am looking for some help and advice regarding CVs and their air groups for a mod I am planning.
The size of CV air groups changes over the course of the game. For example the size of the US fighter wings on their CVs. In UV (but I don't know about WitP) the relative amounts of TBP, DBP and FTRs changed over time also.
In the database there does not seem to be any way to set the numbers for a Carrier based air group (?) If I wanted to add some extra Carriers how does the size of the air groups get reflected?
If I change the capacity of a CV does it's Air group size change too? I am interested in trying to model deck parking and I would like to do this by changing the Capacity of a CV after a refit. Does anyone know whether the attached Air groups will expand to fill out the extra Capacity? Or should I add another Squadron as a reinforcement at about the time of the upgrade?
I want to add extra CVs of certain classes and even create new classes of CVs. I can add the extra air groups but how can I set their size and/or the split between the types? The splits don't seem to be standard by nation as, for example, some of the Japanese have no DBP components and others do. Or is there just a division between CVs, CVLs and CVEs? What would happen if I created a Japanese CV with a capacity of about 30. Would it have 10 FTRs, 10 DBPs and 10TBPs or can I decide the split and how do I do this?
Any help and advice appreciated [:)]
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:30 pm
by Captain Cruft
Here are the default IJN CV air group sizes for prior to Aug 1942. Note this is for CHS, capacities may differ from stock scen.
CVs Akagi & Kaga (cap 84): 28 F, 28 DB, 28 TB = 84
CVs Shokaku & Zuikaku (cap 84): 28 F, 28 DB, 28 TB = 84
CV Soryu (cap 71): 23 F, 23 DB, 23 TB = 69
CV Hiryu (cap 70): 23 F, 23 DB, 23 TB = 69
CVL Ryujo (cap 48): 29 F, 19 TB = 47
CVLs Shoho & Zuiho (cap 30): 18 F, 12 TB = 30
This is without attempting to set Max in the editor i.e. just letting the program assign the values.
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:36 pm
by Captain Cruft
Here are the same groups after Aug 1942:-
CVs Akagi & Kaga (cap 84): 31 F, 31 DB, 21 TB = 83
CVs Shokaku & Zuikaku (cap 84): 31 F, 31 DB, 21 TB = 83
CV Soryu (cap 71): 26 F, 26 DB, 17 TB = 69
CV Hiryu (cap 70): 26 F, 26 DB, 17 TB = 69
CVL Ryujo (cap 48): 29 F, 19 TB = 47
CVLs Shoho & Zuiho (cap 30): 18 F, 12 TB = 30
Note the CVLs did not change ...
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:44 pm
by Captain Cruft
I forgot the Junyos.
Before: 17 F, 17 DB, 17 TB = 51
After: 19 F, 6 DB, 13 TB = 38
Odd ...
RE: CVs and their Air Groups
Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:23 pm
by Hoplosternum
Thanks very much for the replies. I will do some testing for the effects of increasing the maximum size.
I am wondering how much of this is hard coded. We can add extra CVs but do their air groups follow the same paths?
Does anyone have any experience of adding extra CVs? How do their air groups behave? Does an extra Yorktown's air group act like the other Yorktown air groups?
From Captain Cruft's figures it appears that the TBP numbers drop to approximately 25% of the total planes (except on the Junyo's!) so presumably this will apply to all IJN CVs, even of a 'made up' class.
Cheers everyone!