Matrix Games Forums

Well I just had a nice taste of some ways the more experience players have learned to manipulate the game in what I think are unrealistic ways. Either way know ing was new and the tactics he used were unsporting to say the least.

Here are few examples

1st russia attack was (win43 I attack as german then) . He had built up many militi, which was curious to say the least and had tanks at 11 attack 9 def, which was amazing too since he had a total of 19 of them after his win 43 turn. So he makes all these attack killing just my art and him losing nothing all through the game with air. even when I have good flak there.

But, the killer was when he sent in a wave of a bunch of militia (just to die) as a first attack on my units. Then sent in his better units and damaged all my tuff tanks and I didn't do much. Seems units lose lots of defense if in battle for a turn. So he knows eactly how do it so that after his first attack, germany is bascially at the mercy of russia 43 with no chance to do anything.

So what am I missing, why did I get my ass kicked around so badly. I can send the turn file that I'm speaking of to anybody that would can to help me understand.

At this point I'm think I shouldn't play online as that was very anticlimatic and a waste of time just to end that way. Or I just need to make agreements with people I play first not to use certain tricks that don't seem historical or fair.

very simple. you waited too long to attack Russia.

A solid attack in 41 even as late as spring 42 to push the front line east and reduce the number of Russian RP's (so he can't just build militia and tech up his tanks)

If you wait till the last minute to attack Russia your just asking for it.

I have to agree with hyperbob, if you wait until 43 to attack Russia you are going to get slaughtered no matter what. At the begining of the game the Germans have to decide if England or Russia is going to be their main target. If it's England they have to take London (and win the AV Victory) before W43. The plan here is to win before W43 and never have to attack Russia (or the USA) at all. If successful it's game over; if not you will have a very difficult (well actually impossible) time holding off the Russians until F46. Your Japanese may (with luck) survive, but not your Germans. If your plan is to attack Russia then the earlier you attack the better. In my opinion a F40 (yes 1940) attack has the most chance of success, but others disagree.

I'm surprised he only had 19 tanks. When I'm the Russians I usually have about 20 10/10 tanks or 30 10/9 tanks by W43 depending on my strategy. Are you sure he built all those militia prior to your attack? Remember Russia gets 2 militia per pop point the turn of German attack. Even if he did, I wouldn't personally call this tactic manipulative or unrealistic. Sending in the cannon fodder to soften up the enemy is a tactic which has many examples throughout history right up until and including the Vietnam War.

Don't be disheartened by this one game or tactic. This game has a pretty steep learning curve but if you keep playing you will improve and develop your own tactics/strategies or adapt those you learn from others. One of the most important things to learn in this game is how combat works. Having the best strategy will not win you any games if your execution is poor. A few tips:

1. Print out the attack odds from the post in the War Room Forum. This will, for example, give you the odds of a unit with an 6 attack hitting a unit with a 21 defence.

2. Remember that like units will always attack like units in combat if possible. This means if I have a force of 5 Inf and 5 militia defending against 5 tank and 5 enemy inf; our infantry will square off and his tanks will attack my militia. This is probably a good thing as his tanks are wasted on my militia, while hopefully my infantry will give better than it takes against his infantry. Keep this in mind when you are planning your attacks or defences.

3. Remember that units already attacked in a turn will have their evasion reduced by 1. therefore a tank with an 8 evasion (24 defence) will be reduced to a 7 evasion (21 defence).

4. Know which units have armor and how it effects combat (ie opposing units subtract 1 from their attack rating).

5. Use all this knowledge to your advantage. You want to wipe out a sub, send in your hvy bomber 1st even if it has no chance to hit. It's attack will reduce the sub evasion by 1 making it more likely that an attack with good units will hurt the sub.

Again, I've rambled on too much. My point being, stick with this game and pbem play. You will be glad you did.

I appreciate all the help. There is much for me to learn. It is a fun game and the AI, although not best opponent, was where I played most. When I played my 3rd online game against this Aejandra T. guy and told him I was newer he should have told me how experienced he was. That part was not very sporting of him to dupe me. If he had said he was a long time player and with much experience I would have then been able to decide if I wanted to invest the time. Or maybe he could have helped me more, not once did he offer and advise. He knew all along he what was going to happen and why he was building up all that pre-war militia for Russia. Thus, he premeditated beating he gave to me and my new self was just wrong.

I would hope that if this community is to grow the veterans would be more accomodating to us newer players. But, he is only one individual and I hope in the minority as far as sportsmanship goes.

Please take this advice.

Learn from the beating you got.

When you posted for a new game - did you ask only to play against other new players? When your opponent offered to play against you did you ask him how experienced he was? If you knew he had played some before did you ask him to go easy on you and spot you some advice? Did you even ask him to comment on the game after he had won and suggest how you could improve your game?

If not - you only have yourself to blame that he didnt hold your hand. He probably assumed you wanted to play the game and learn from doing so rather than be told what to do.

As it is - I dont think he did anything wrong. You just attacked too late which is bad play and you learned a valueable lesson What more did you expect from your first game? Infact, expect to be beaten handily from time to time I certainly am - but take that as a challenge to learn. Learn, grow better, read the rules again, conjure up new plans, improve - and get that splendid feeling when suddenly you are the one to hand your opponent his rear.

Your opponent wasnt unsportsmanlike. You could be seen as rather unsportmanlike though with the tone you are taking in these posts. I know I would feel annoyed had I been your opponent.

abulbulian, I did offer some advice early on, probably in a much too subtle way though. when I saw what you were doing I commented on it and you responded very confidently, with no sign of needing any help. at the end, I sent you an email trying to help you out with analysis of what happened.

I'm sorry if I should have given you more help at the beginning, but frankly your plan wasn't all that bad, it just had no objective to winning the game at hand.

we never really discussed the rules of winning, so I was glad to play whatever rules you felt like. you had I think 62PP by winter43 and if you hadn't produced japanese tanks, you would have had enough for japan to build supply and go way over the top of 70 PP and thus winning the game.

your early game doesn't need any help at all. all you need is a focused end game objective. pick a target and go for it as axis. the axis can't research everything, expand everywhere and then not expect the allies to attack when they're unfrozen. the axis never wins the game without a clear end-game plan. I've even lost a game with 69 PP before because the allies came and ruined my plan in w43.

take every game as a lesson and you'll be a lot better player in the end. the lesson here, as the others have also said, is that its impossible to win against a russia that was had time to build unhindered until 1943.

ORIGINAL: JanSorensen

Please take this advice.

Learn from the beating you got.

LOL, ain't this the truth.

I have had my head handed to me too many times already. You will learn most of their "cheap tactics" soon enough. [:D]

Maybe we should play a PBEM? Because I suck too! [;)]

There are good reasons people might be inclined to ignore advice from an opponent mid-game. Commenting on what someone is doing can frequently be used as a dupe tactic. I found whilst playing board games amongst experienced players your opponent(s) will try to persuade or trick you against what they think will hurt them - if it works just once, it's still beneficial. There are also people out there who want to win more than they want to play, and are overjoyed to play novices just for the cheap win, even to the point of giving deliberately bad advice - which has happened to me before. Although I think that is generally rare, as you've got to be a bit maladjusted to abuse a learner like that.

I don't wish to imply either has happened in the case of this thread, merely to say that unless some understanding is reached, it's difficult to know how to take people's commentary on your game. As a general rule, I've found experienced players are usually very helpful to newer ones even when opposing them, letting them know basic strategies, tactics and common sucker-punches to look out for. But it is up to the newer players to clearly establish that they would like to use the game as a lesson, not a straight-out competition. On the other hand, the experienced players are well entitled to keep some aces up their sleeve as well. - after all, even a new player can be fairly dangerous given the wealth of hints available on a site such as this one.

Actually ateledo did you a favor.
There is much to for a new person to gain when playing a veteran, not much for the veteran. You learn a heck of alot more when you lose then when you win....

On another note, some might see it as poor sport in offering advice when not asked. My advice is to take the loss like a man, analyze what went right and what didn't, analyze what your opponent did to beat you and then schedule another game with someone. Whining about the loss won't garner you too much sympathy in these parts..

-way

I hate it when people complain about things concerning games. It makes me notice or think about the same thing and then it ruins my game or wantingness to play any further. Kind of like whne my mother finally told me there was no santa clause, now that i'm 33 I now know that she had just always been a bad kid and that santa really does exist, she just didn't get visits by him...............anyway, it kind of taes the magic away from the game to reveal is shortcomings.....just saying, thats all.

I KNEW it! Santa does exist![:D]