Matrix Games Forums

I found an article (likely written several years ago):

http://www.nhmgs.org/articles/historyofwargaming.html

Part of the article (near the bottom) states:

Computer gamers will probably number some one million (plus!) over the next few years, but recent statistics quoted in publications such as PC Gamer imply that historical wargame computer buffs may actually number less than the cardboard variety. Indeed, consider that last year's PC Wargame of the year, Talonsoft's very well received The Operational Art of War, sold far less than 2000 total copies.

This is interesting. I always thought the number of gamers (especially for TOAW) was greater than this. If that's an accurate number it could explain why there are few games of this genre, as the cost (in dollars and time) would be far too great to realize a profit.

These numbers MUST be bigger IMO. I'm just wondering how many PC wargamers are out there.

My only question is did they include me as one of the million?.....just like Nielsen Ratings, figures such as these are very suspect....

ORIGINAL: J P Falcon

My only question is did they include me as one of the million?.....just like Nielsen Ratings, figures such as these are very suspect....

I'm suspect too. I bought 2 copies of the orginal TOAW and 2 copies of TOAW-COW. Only reason I'm bringing this up is because of all the talk of lack of prior updates, etc. Maybe it's a reason we did not see more of them over the years.

Indeed, consider that last year's PC Wargame of the year, Talonsoft's very well received The Operational Art of War, sold far less than 2000 total copies.

So when did the original TOAW come out?

I know I wasn't married yet when I bought it.....must've been '97 or '98.

my best guess is that article is 7-8 years old!

Like you guys, I've bought several versions of the game(and some repeats). Though except for two, I don't believe I payed full price. Could these figures be excluding 'discount' sales?

ORIGINAL: macgregor

Like you guys, I've bought several versions of the game(and some repeats). Though except for two, I don't believe I payed full price. Could these figures be excluding 'discount' sales?

Wouldn't doubt it....my Toaw 1 and 2 were 'used', only the 'game of the year' and 'acow' were virgin.

'Used' games couldn't show up on any publisher's lists, as the sale/resale had nothing to do with the publisher.....

I'd easily believe that many more people have 'owned and played' than can be accounted for, eh?

Certainly some doubt concerning all the copies that went thru the local 'play-master' or what ever your local resell shop is called. I've never bought a game that's needed a 'online reg number/key number' or similar as a used game. You know right out-loud that such numbers will be comprimised.

Also, there must be un-numeralble people that never registered thier games, and may/or not have passed them along to friends.

In itself, this is why we will ALL be buying a new cd in order to get the good stuff........pay to play, eh?

2,000 would be about the number I've seen posting on the various TOAW forums over the past 5 1/2 years (Talonsoft, Matrix, TDG, WHQ, RD and now Matrix again). I really doubt that these are more than a fraction of all players of the game. So- especially considering that the average TOAW player has bought the game at least twice- that figure sounds highly dubious.

"Adapted from the author's master's thesis Playing War: the Applicability of Commercial Conflict Simulations to Military Intelligence Training and Education (DIA Joint Military Intelligence College, Bolling AFB, DC, 1995)."

It is an old article, so the figures are likely to be for TOAW-I only.

@JMS2;

Your links are dead to me, reset please?

ORIGINAL: JMS2


"Adapted from the author's master's thesis Playing War: the Applicability of Commercial Conflict Simulations to Military Intelligence Training and Education (DIA Joint Military Intelligence College, Bolling AFB, DC, 1995)."

It is an old article, so the figures are likely to be for TOAW-I only.

TOAW Volume I, to my knowledge, was only released in 1998. So that date can't be right.

There's more than one reference to events in 1998, and nothing after that. So figure this article is from last millenium.

ORIGINAL: Juggalo

Indeed, consider that last year's PC Wargame of the year, Talonsoft's very well received The Operational Art of War, sold far less than 2000 total copies.

So when did the original TOAW come out?

I know I wasn't married yet when I bought it.....must've been '97 or '98.

my best guess is that article is 7-8 years old!

According to Norm Koger's own website, TOAW came out in June 1998 (had my copy by september), TOAW 2 in May 1999 and CoW in May 2000.

These figures must be wrong - WITP sold several times more copies than that, and WITP simply *cannot* be more popular than TOAW (this is not my personal taste, as I love both games as much as computer game can be "loved" [:D])

I've read number of 100.000+ copies for TOAW once (whole series, or up to TOAW 2, I can't remember, nor I can find any link to the source).

I'd bet my cojones TOAW sold many times more copies than 2k.

Oleg

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I'd bet my cojones TOAW sold many times more copies than 2k.

Oleg

Who would want your cojones? [:-]

ORIGINAL: Keke

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I'd bet my cojones TOAW sold many times more copies than 2k.

Oleg

Who would want your cojones? [:-]

LOL Keke, don't know about you guys but some ladies I know beg for them... [8D]

OK lets stop, otherwise this board will need PG rating.

O.

Yeah, I think that article is old and likely only had sales on TOAW 1 as of the date of the article. I'm sure it must be wrong, but just wonder how large the community for it really is, considering all the latest news and anticipation. I'd bet that we could expect considerable work on the series if there is a large following. Let's hope so. [:D][:D]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

LOL Keke, don't know about you guys but some ladies I know beg for them... [8D]

Do these Croatian girls preserve them in little jars or something? [X(]

Pickled onions?

ORIGINAL: Keke

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

LOL Keke, don't know about you guys but some ladies I know beg for them... [8D]

Do these Croatian girls preserve them in little jars or something? [X(]

I'd rather not tell you what do they do with them [8D]

Anyway, if they wanted to keep them preserved in jars they'll need big ones [:D]

O.

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

Pickled onions?

Better not to buy the Croatian ones.

LOL! Why, it might do wonders for your fertility... [X(]

O.