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Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:30 pm
by spence
Checking out various sources, I find that Japanese CAs had 25mm of armor protecting their main battery turrets. The game's data base gives them 150mm.
Thus their weaponry is basically immune to the 5" gun, 250 lb bomb and probably500 lb bombs. Japanese CA belt and deck armor ratings coorelate well with the same sources I checked, but this rating for the gun armor is just plain wrong.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:37 pm
by DuckofTindalos
You sure that's not just the lower limit of their turret armour? Most ships (on both sides) had weaker armour on the back of their turrets, and heavier to the front.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:50 pm
by spence
Pretty shure the Japanese simply had 25mm armor on all surfaces. They are fine looking ships but their massive superstructures made them a bit top-heavy. Armor at the level of the main deck (where the lowest of the turrets are) decreases any ship's stability. All things in naval architecture are trade-offs. More armor on the guns might well have decreased the ship's stability to the point where it was not a stable gun platform in any kind of sea.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:04 pm
by Marc
25.4mm NVNC steel plates on sides, front, back and roof are correct for all heavy cruiser turrets according to "Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War" from Eric Lacroix and Linton Wells II.
Marc
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:33 pm
by DuckofTindalos
But that's rice paper!!![X(]
It's the rating the CHS boys are using, though...
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:35 pm
by ETF
Great about time now I will be able to at least knock out a few turrets..........
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:22 pm
by Big B
ORIGINAL: spence
Checking out various sources, I find that Japanese CAs had 25mm of armor protecting their main battery turrets. The game's data base gives them 150mm.
Thus their weaponry is basically immune to the 5" gun, 250 lb bomb and probably500 lb bombs. Japanese CA belt and deck armor ratings coorelate well with the same sources I checked, but this rating for the gun armor is just plain wrong.
Goo-ood Morning guys,
Well I guess you missed my thread on this very subject last week....
I got Tiornu to confirm what you and I dsicovered - YES (they have no bananas) - Japanese CA's had only 25mm of turret armor![;)] I believe the Nachi class had 3" coamings (deck armor protection to the turret base) but that's it.
Sadly, we got no response that Matrix had any desire to change that.
Gentlemen, Start your editors![:D]
B
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:24 pm
by DuckofTindalos
Already done...[;)]
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:26 pm
by spence
If a pair of players with a game in progress each modify the values in their editors, will the change take effect or are they stuck with the old ones?
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:27 pm
by DuckofTindalos
You're stuck. The editor only modifies the scenarios, not the savegames.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:28 pm
by DuckofTindalos
BTW, does anybody know if it's correct that the Oyodo CL is credited with 63mm of turret armour?
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:28 pm
by spence
(Cool, another star for me.[:)] ) I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese CLs are overrated as well but Oyodo was a newer class that may have been designed and built with more armor protection for its guns.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:31 pm
by steveh11Matrix
ORIGINAL: Terminus
You're stuck. The editor only modifies the scenarios, not the savegames.
...which I've always said is a weakness, not a strength.
The PBEM guys, fearing cheating, rode right over my protests however. [:(]
Steve.
(Oh, what I wouldn't give for a program capable of creating a standard scenario database out of a save game, or a save-game editor. One way or the other, I don't mind! [:D])
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:38 pm
by Big B
ORIGINAL: Terminus
BTW, does anybody know if it's correct that the Oyodo CL is credited with 63mm of turret armour?
Howdy Terminus,
According to the bible (Conway's) and the other similar sources I have - CL Oyodo has 1" turret armor.[;)]
B
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 3:03 pm
by DuckofTindalos
Gracias, amigo!
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:36 pm
by Tiornu
"According to the bible (Conway's) and the other similar sources I have - CL Oyodo has 1" turret armor."
Wow, the Bible says the Queen Elizabeth class had 13-inch deck armor?
Apart from the old armored cruisers, no Japanese cruiser had more than 25mm armor for the gun mounts. For those who are really anal, 25.4mm is incorrect as the Japanese did not use the 25.4mm armor inch in any warships--though the extra 0.4mm might just barely fall within the manufacturing tolerances.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:39 pm
by Big B
ORIGINAL: Tiornu
"According to the bible (Conway's) and the other similar sources I have - CL Oyodo has 1" turret armor."
Wow, the Bible says the Queen Elizabeth class had 13-inch deck armor?
Apart from the old armored cruisers, no Japanese cruiser had more than 25mm armor for the gun mounts. For those who are really anal, 25.4mm is incorrect as the Japanese did not use the 25.4mm armor inch in any warships--though the extra 0.4mm might just barely fall within the manufacturing tolerances.
13" deck armor - pretty good eh?[:D]
I was wondering where you were Tiornu!
B
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:53 pm
by Tomo
Yes, 25mm.
For example, each battery turrets of Takao class was a 160 ton.
Too heavy. Had to reduce its weight.
Only vital part have a heavy armor.
RE: Japanese CA's armor over-rated.
Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:13 am
by Tiornu
"13" deck armor - pretty good eh?"
Hey, Nagato actually had something like that. After her modernization, she had 11in of armor on 3in of HT laminations. That's worth about 13in.
"I was wondering where you were Tiornu!"
For the next twelve hours, directly in Wilma's path.