Matrix Games Forums

Just curious what everyone thinks about the Oscar.

As the Allies do you fear it in 41'? Do you respect it in 43'? Should you in either case?

As the IJA do you lament it in 41' or commend it? How bout 43'? Should you in either case?


Do you think this is how it should be? If not, how should the Oscar be represented with say an experienced (70+EXP) unit in 41'? How bout that same unit (70+)in 43'? or with green (40-50EXP)Aircrew?

Does anyone out there who has used the Nik mod disagreed or been blownaway by his tweaks?

Be as explicit as you can. Feel free to site sources to back up your statements.

Thanks...

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Just curious what everyone thinks about the Oscar.

As the Allies do you fear it in 41'? Do you respect it in 43'? Should you in either case?

As the IJA do you lament it in 41' or commend it? How bout 43'? Should you in either case?


Do you think this is how it should be? If not, how should the Oscar be represented with say an experienced (70+EXP) unit in 41'? How bout that same unit (70+)in 43'? or with green (40-50EXP)Aircrew?

Does anyone out there who has used the Nik mod disagreed or been blownaway by his tweaks?

Be as explicit as you can. Feel free to site sources to back up your statements.

Thanks...

As an Allied player in early 1942 (playing standard game), i rather like the Oscar. It gives me lots of Victory Points!

I like them, because:

1) They are pretty.
2) They upgrade to Tony.

I hate using them though. They are okay for CAP to keep unescorted bombers at bay. I might use them as bomber escorts if they don't have to fly very far, and if there is only garbage defending at the other end. Mainly they are good only as a deterrent, and to train pilots to fly Tonys.

Better than using Nates. [:@]

What he said......

Much better than Nates. I'm not too far into the game yet, but they seem to be reasonably useful in the early going, providing LRCAP to TFs cruising around Borneo/Singapore where the occasional small Martin/TIVa raid needs to be beaten back.

Useless. I use them just in the very early stages of the war, when they face only unexperienced Buffalos or dutch planes. After the fall of Singapore they are all put into China where they stand a chance against made in russia planes, but mostly for training pourposes...those guys will have to fly Tonies and Tojos and i want them in a good shape!

I regard the Oscar and Nate as trainers for my Tojo's and Tony's. In a pinch, I will throw Oscars against anything below P-40's and Hurricanes. Against P-40's, Hurricanes, or anything better, they grant too many VP to the Allies.

I'm hearing a lot of "this is what I use them for", but I haven't heard a lot of "I think this is how it should be", or "In 41' I think the Oscar should be a frontline fighter anywhere as it was IRL".

I'm no expert on WWII fighters.

What I can say is that from the couple of books I read on the topic in the game the Oscar seem to under-perform with regard to history. But again I've little knowledge.

In my game as Allies they bother me only as CAP vs. unescorted bombers ar Irrelevant already pointed out.

As Jap I try to use them against unescorted bombers [:D]

They suck for everything else. I had 80+ exp Oscars shot down by Brewsters.
I was watching the BBC box set on WWII (great btw). there was an interview of British pilots fighitn in Burma.
One of them said, with the Buffalo's you were lucky to come back alive if you encoutered bad weather, let alone enemy fighters! [;)]

I think the ability of Japanese players to use zeroes in roles IRL delegated to oscars means that they are not used unless necessary. (Thats down to a mix of production surpluses/no army navy competition and I think a tendency for Sir Robins by Allied players even in small ways)

Even in non PDU games I rarely see them in 42 never mind 43 as allies.

They are a match for most Allied fighters in early 42 but after Spits arrive even in Burma they are outclassed so I never see them. No Japanese player is going to waste valuable trained pilots in Oscars.

Andy

I see them performing horrible next to Hurricanes and P-40s. The Oscars seem good enough to deal with Chinese fighters and Buffalos but that's about it.

I think that these aircraft should at the very least be able to hold their own. I've always believed that the Zero bonus should apply to ALL Japanese fighters in the early war, not just the Zero.

As IJA/N I use Oscar as

(1) Smoke and Mirrors - by putting them at bases that aren't being attacked, the Oscars provide the illusion of a defence ( reports of fighters ! ).

(2) Cannon fodder - By stocking a base with say 2 Tony units, a Tojo unit and 3 Oscar units ... I get numbers ... and guys who die and protect the big boys ... the numbers helps .. and having the T&T fighers survive also helps. Then I can train up some more Oscars in China and then ship them to the front.

It is not clear to me that Oscars perform substaintially a-historically. Oscar was woefully underarmed for a WWII fighter - Italian fighters had similar problem.

I'd put piles of things on the list in front of fixing Oscars !

The Oscar should be a match for most Allied planes early on.(I went into detail in another thread, which you(Elf) already are aware of).

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/ai ... aoscar.htm

BTW, here is a good page where another gamer has taken aviation physics of WW2 planes and quantified the performance statistics for each, giving a fairly accurate comparison of the planes.

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/

No-one's mentioned my favorite feature of the oscar.

They have the ceiling to take on high altitude B-17s. Particularly high altitude B-17s that are bombing your oil.

How many B-17s were shot down by Oscars?

Going to bet that more Oscars were shot down by B-17s than the other way.

ORIGINAL: m10bob

The Oscar should be a match for most Allied planes early on.(I went into detail in another thread, which you(Elf) already are aware of).

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/ai ... aoscar.htm

BTW, here is a good page where another gamer has taken aviation physics of WW2 planes and quantified the performance statistics for each, giving a fairly accurate comparison of the planes.

http://www.rdrop.com/users/hoofj/

Interesting sites. Hoof's site in particular speaks to me as his break down of aircraft performance reads like the BFM chapter in the Navy's Top Gun Manual.

What I found interesting is that both sites view the Oscar as "An excellent fighter for it's time" (Early War)

"In combat, the Hayabusa was superior to any opposing fighter it encountered in the initial part of the war. The OSCAR remained formidable even as better Allied aircraft entered the fray."

and

"Although not well known compared to the A6M Zero fighter, the Ki-43 was a formidable aircraft, particularly during the early war years."

Hoof even goes on the say "An excellent fighter of the time, it was superior to the Zero in almost every regard except firepower." -- This statement alone seems to support applying the Zero bonus at least to the Oscar too.

I'd wager that this post in this particular thread will be the only place you'd see those kinds of remarks about OUR Oscar.

What data do we have from the war regarding the performance of the Oscar in combat ??

If the Oscars had more formidible firepower, they might be worth something but as it is right now they are outgunned by a lot of recon aircraft. They are at best, a stop gap measure. Luckily, most of their opposition is also obsolete during the first few months.

Still, as others have said, they make great pilot trainers until Tony and Tojo come along.

Chez

Well, we know the AVG feasted on them on several occasions. It wasn't that they couldn't maneuver and get hits. Its that when they did get hits, the firepower was just too weak to have any great effect on the P-40 and Hurricanes.

Chez