Matrix Games Forums

lets see if there is/are areas of importence, that could/should be added to the game, that for this or that reason were left out

(remember, that there may be reasons why they were left out in the first place)

this one will be for BTR

keep on Topic please

Ok i try )
i suppose we are talking about the map set up of the last patch ?
I suggest to rename the sw area of Paris which is named Versailles .
Versailles is not really part of the Paris area , 20 km away in the west,
so create a town/rail a bit 1 or 2 cm left of paris.
the former area versailles could be renamed Boulogne-Billancourt , and you could move
inside the Renault factories .
To say a bit of history , the managers Renauds&sons ... were a bit too efficient and
cooperative with their german host , so the factories were nationalized at the liberation.
My father , recalled to been rushed with his sister and mother in cave when the factories were bombed,
he was too young to remember more , but his sister says me that in 1943 1944 , their was aerial daylight attack , some night alert , but she cannnot confirmed if it was really an attack.
Their were living in Boulogne Billancourt.
You could add too near Versailles 1 cm south , a town named Trappes , it was and it is still a major
railway junction and maintenance facilities , in his memories Clostermann talked about the railroad targets , in the woods nearby where i use to do some campfire ( i was in the boyscouts forgive me !)))) ) i noticed a lot of crater , later in a historic regional newspaper i learned their was
heavy bombardement in 1944 prior for the D-Day and a lot of scattering...
i suggest a railway class 2 for versailles and Trappes.
I have too some suggestion for the romanian map . My wife is romanian , and she came frome Campina
the town is present , and a oil raffinery has dissapeared between the patch (Steaua Romana )
according to her uncle who still work inside , the raffinery was created at the end of the XIX century... and local account i heard about the Us Bombardement of 1943 , where some bombing took places near Campina.
Why there is not too some aircraft factories ( IAR ) near Brasov ? Historical they were present as soon as Romania build an air force pre wwI !
That's all for instance folk !
Sorry if my enthousiasm is greater than my knowledge of english.

TH_SFR

There is a rather long list of those on JC´s BTR site [;)]

There is a rather long list of those on JC´s BTR site

The Targets For Inclusion Or Amendment Thread if I recall.

There is so much good data and ideas over on JC's site, if you look at most of the ideas people are coming up with here they are ones we all bought up years ago.

Most of the good stuff should be left as the data lost due to the hack "only" wiped off the last few months or so.

von Shagmeister

after JC´s forum is still not open for public viewing I repost some of my posts ( some parts of it are now in one of the newer OB/OAs..)

ALUM Lauta-Werke or Lautawerk (Selchhow-Spiegelberg somewhere near Cottbus) and also a POWER site

ALUM Vereinigte Aluminium Werke
- Grevenbroich
- Selchow-Spiegelberg ( this is not the same as above, they or two different entities !!!)

OILS;OILR;FUEL BRABAG (Braunkohlen and Benzin AG)
- Böhlen
- Magdeburg
- Tröglitz
- Buchenwald

ARM (and sometimes possible STEEL) Hermann Göring Werke
- Beddingen
- Bleckenstedt
- Brüx
- Csepel
- Linz
- Meleschowitz-Laskowitz
- Rattwitz
- Stalowa-Wola
- Gebhardshagen

OILR;OILS;FUEL Kontinentale Öl
- Boryslaw
- Drohobycz
- Iwonicz
- Jaslo
- Lublin
- Moderowka
- Opary
- Stryj
- Truskawiec
- Ugarsthal

ARM Munitionsanstalt ( Muna)
- Ahrbergen
- Beetenbrück
- Bodenteich
- Celle
- Diekholzen
- Freithal, Stadt
- Fürsthagen
- Godenau/Alfeld
- Hänigsen
- Herfa
- Hohenbrunn
- Lehrte
- Lockstedter Lager
- Lübberstedt
- Mölln
- Ringelstein
- Torgau
- Volpriehausen
- Walsrode
- Wehmingen
- Wildflecken
- Wulfen
- Zeven
- Buchenwald
- Neuengamme
- Alfeld
- Munster
- Aurich
- Hesedorf
- Breitengüssbach
- Bork
- Rehden

Ostindustrie GmbH not sure what they did/built ??( was an SS entity)
- Gloat
- Lublin

ARM Volkswagen
- Neuengamme
- Fallersleben
- Wolfsburg
- Braunschweig
- Neindorf

ARM Adlerwerke
- Hannover
- Frankfurt/Main
- Hamburg

POWER (and sometimes maybe ARM) Allgemeine Elektrizitäts Gesellschaft (AEG):
- Berlin
- Freiberg/Sachsen
- Natzweiler
- Ausschwitz III
- Longwy-Thil
- Blechhammer
- Berlin-Henningsdorf
- Velten
- Thorn
- Riga
- Parschnitz

CHEM Anorgana GmbH
- Emmerting

ARM Astrawerke
- Chemnitz

CHEM Bayer Farbenfabrik:
- Dormagen
- Kaldenhausen
- Rumeln

Bayrische Motoren Werke (BMW) ARM, EFAC:
- Allach
- Trostburg
- Eisenach
- Blaichach
- München ( = Muinch)

OILS;OILR;FUEL Bergabau AG
- Bochum
- Castrop-Rauxel

ARM Borsig Werke
- Berlin-Hennigdorf
- Laziska Gorne
- Düsseldorf
- Breslau-Hundsfeld

STEEL;ARM Brown und Boveri ( todays AAB ):
- Essing
- Gross-Auheim

STEEL and sometimes also small ARM Buderus Eisenwerke:
- Graeveneck
- Breidenbach
- Lollar
- Mehel
- Oberbiel

ARM;STEEL Busch-Jäger Metallwerk
- Luedenscheid
- Schalksmühle

CHEM Chemische Fabrik WASAG:
- Elsing
- Sythen

RUBBER Continental
- Hannover
- Wehbach-Friedrichshütte

ARM;EFAC Daimler-Benz AG
- Plochingen
- Hamburg-Wandsbek
- Haslach
- Rzeszow/Reichshof
- Genshagen

Deutsche Erdöl AG (OILS; OILR)
-Gelsenkirchen

Deutsche Erdöl Raffinerie Trzebinia (OILR)

Dornier Werke AG (AFAC;CFAC)
- Tutzing
- Aufkirch
- Friedrichshafen
- Lübeck
- Seeretz
- Kaufering

Dürkoppwerke AG (ARM)
- Bielefeld

Dynamit Nobel AG (="DAG")
- Herzberg
- Sieglar

Felten- und Guilleaume (STEEL;ARM)
- Köln-Mühlheim
- Eschweiler

Friedrich Krupp (ARM):
- Buchenwald
- Wüstegiersdorf
- Gräditz
- Lintorf
- Rheinhausen
- Neuenrade
- Voerde
- Essen
- Essen-Krupp
- Bochum
- Wanne-Eickel
- Birkesdorf
- Rastdorf
- Wuppertal
- Vormeppen
- Witterschlick
- Bad Harzburg
- Königswusterhausen
- Langenbielau
- Geisenheim
- Laskowitz-Meleschwitz

Fritz Werner AG (ARM)
- Berlin

Hartmann & Braun AG (ARM)
- Lauterbach
- Frankfurt/Main

Henkel & Cie (CHEM)
- Bingerbrueck
- Waltersdorf
- Kochendorf
- Oranienburg
- Schwarzenforst
- Mielec
- Rostock
- Gandersheim
- Schwechat
- Wieliczka
- Barth
- Mauthausen

Hochfrequenz AG (ARM, maybe CFAC )
- Bochum

Hoechst (CHEM)
- Frankfurt/Main
- Sulzbach

Hydrierwerk AG
- Blechhammer

IG Farbenindustrie AG (CHEM, some are maybe FUEL)
- Frankfurt/Main
- Dormhagen
- Sackenhoym
- Köln-Flittard
- Buchenwald
- Waldenburg
- Köln
- Krefeld
- Landsberg
- Leverkusen
- Ludwigshafen
- Moosbierbaum
- Wolfen
- Wuppertal
- Sulzbach
- Offenbach

Julius Pintsh AG ARM ( they also built CHEM plants and OILS):
- Berlin
- Fürstenwalde/Spree
- Dresden
- Breslau
- Frankfurt/Main
- Utrecht

Junkers AG CFAC;EFAC;AFAC:
- Zittau
- Markkleeberg
- Langensalza
- Niederorschel-Langenwerk
- Leopoldshall
- Schoenbeck/Elbe
- Mühlhausen
- Dessau
- Aschersleben
- Westeregeln
- Halberstadt
- Magdeburg
- Buchenwald
- Mühlhausen
- Breslau
- Venusberg
- Vaake

Kabel- und Leitungswerk ARM (subsidiary of Siemens):
- Neustadt bei Coburg
- Buchenwald
- Neustadt
- Strassfurt

Kali-Chemie (CHEM)
- Brunsbüttelkoog
- Kaldenhausen
- Kaldenkirchen
- Heilbronn
- Mannheim
- Nienburg
- Oberhausen
- Sehnde
- Weetzen

Klöckner- und Co. (ARM)
- Hagen
- Düsseldorf
- Troisdorf
- Unna

Knoll AG (CHEM)
- Ludwigshafen

Kugelfischer (BBFAC)
- Edelsbach
- Gerolzhofen
- Hassfurt

I am missing many ports in BTR ( some are a reminder because they have been posted [:D] )

- Antwerp ( a huge Port, very important for the Allied in the late war )
- Rotterdam ( I also miss the city !!!)
- Marseille ( even France has some ports in the med [8|] )
- Toulon
- Trieste !!!
- Lübeck
- Ludwigshafen ( nomen est omen : "hafen"=port !!)
- Karlsruhe
- Heilbronn
- Hamm !! (yes not only big RAIL, but also important PORT)
- Bremen
- Gelsenkirchen
- Mainz
- Kehl
- Neuss ( is this the "Düsseldorf Rhine" in the game ????)

and also I miss all the important ports from Romania to Germany ( important supply line for OIL !!!! ) like:
- Silistra ( in Romania)
- Gruia ( in Romania )
- Reni ( today in the Ukraine )
- Costanta ( or Constanza ) on the Black Sea
- Belgrad
- Budapest
- Bratislava
- Vienna
- Linz
- Passau

add Constanta PORT:
there is an OILR in the game with that name, but it is far inland ???

is it possible to make new target types in future, just to make BTR more complex [;)]
like:
locomotive and rolling stock plants ??

They were an important and often attacked target ( here in Austria it were the sites:
- Simmering-Graz-Pauker Werk Graz
- Simmering-Graz-Pauker Werk Wien-Simmering
- Lokomotivfabriks AG (LOFAG) Wien-Floridsdorf [ LOFAG build 2115 steamers and 57 electro-locomotives during WW 2]

Hitting such sites would also result to lower the effectiveness of the transport system.

Bremen seems to be underrated in BTR [:)]
Bremen was attacked 193x in WW2; 40% of the area was destroyed.

Targets in Bremen:
PORT
( yes, Steven I know that you have mentioned that one :p )
RAIL
two importent lines (Hannover-Bremen and Osnabrück-Bremen ) and a big repair work/plant of the German Eisenbahn
POWER:
two power plants ( a hydroelectric and the other a thermal Plant )
armaments industry:
- Focke-Wulf plant Hastedt (AFAC/CFAC)
- Focke Wulf plant Hemelingen (AFAC/CFAC)
- Weser Flugzeug Bau (AFAC/CFAC)
- Borgward plant Hastedt (ARM, )
- Borgward plant Sebaldsbrück (ARM)
- Lloyd-Dynamo (electric motors )
- Roland Werft (ships, UFAC )
- Bremer Vulkan (ships, UFAC )
- Deschimag - A.G (ships, UFAC )
- Weser Werke (ships, UFAC )
- Atlas Werke (ships, UFAC )
- Norddeutsche Hütte (STEEL)
- Vacuum Oel ( OILR + OILS )
- Wifo ( OILR + OILS )


FLAK ( 8.FlakDivision):
highest strenght was in September 43:
12,8 cm AA - 8 batteries ( 5 of them Eisenbahnflak)
10,5cm AA - 27 batteries
8,8cm/41 AA - 1 batterie
8,8cm/36 AA - 27 batteries
3,7cm AA - 2 batteries
2cm AA - 12 batteries

I think the CHEMs in Italy are too small, because before WW2 Montecatini was one of the biggest chemical organizations ( besides IG Farben, but that was/is a monster itself).

JC,

here are more possible sites for BTR.

Wien (Vienna):
- Skodawerke — Wetzler A.G. ( Pulverfabrik Skoda) belongs to Vienna and not to Graz; also the name should probably be Donau Chemie.
- OILS BP near Winterhafen/Wien
- OILR and OILS "Mobil Oil Austria AG" near Kagran ( =?? OILR Kagran in BTR)
- OILR and OILS "Shell Austria AG" in Floridsdorf ( =??OILR/OILS Floridsdorf in BTR)
- OILS Tanklager Lobau (+ Ölhafen Lobau PORT)
- OILS+ PORT Mineralöllände Hafen Freudenau
- CHEM VCF-Perstorp, the other big CHEM site in Austria during WW2, named Vereinigten Chemischen Fabriken (VCF)
- POWER Gaswerk Simmering: it produced "Stadtgas" (towngas) and as byproducts tar and coke
- POWER Gaswerk Leoboldau

Tirol:
- OILS Aral-Flyggen/St.Bartlmä south of Innsbruck

Kärnten:
- OILS St.Peterstraße Klagenfurt
- OILS Flatschacherstraße-Lastenstraße Klagenfurt
- CHEM Donau Chemie Brückl
- STEELor CHEM BBU Blei und Zinkhütte Arnoldstein
- CHEM ÖCW Weißenstein
- OILS BP Tanklager Flatschacherstraße Klagenfurt
The three OILS in Klagenfurt are very close, so it could be a small site for BTR

Salzburg
- POWER Gaswerk Roseggerstraße ( in the town of Salzburg)
- OILS near the RR of Salzburg ( but only used for Diesel powered Locomotives )

Oberösterreich
- POWER Gaswerk Bad Ischel
- OILS Shell-Tanklager Linz ( near Winterhafen Linz PORT )
- ARM Glashütte Ingrid
- CHEM Chemiepark Linz (=Stickstoffwerke Linz)

Niederösterreich:
- OILS+OILR Korneuburg named "Deutsche Gasolin" during 1939-1945
- POWER Gaswerk Wiener Neustadt
- OILS+OILR Schwechat
- OILR Vösendorf
- OILS/small PORT Werft Korneuburg ( also Hafen Korneuburg)
- POWER Gaswerk Stockerau
- POWER Gaswerk Baden
- OILS Mare near Korneuburg
- ARM Berndorf

These sites are all from the Federal Environment Agency Austria and their link to register of potentially contaminated sites (Verdachtsflächenkataster).

STEEL:
( also lead, copper, nickel, brass.....)
- Sächsische Guss-Stahlwerke Döhler, plant Freital/Saxony
- Bleiwerk, Goslar
- Vereinigte Deutsche Nickelwerke, Labad/Upper Silesia
- Bleiwerk Dr.Schülcke/Hamburg
- Kupfer und Messingwerke, Finow/Brandenburg
- Dürener Metallwerke (maybe also ARM)
- Deutsch Messingwerke, Berlin
- Westfälische Kupfer- und Messingwerke, Lüdenscheid/Westphalia
- Kupferwerk Ilsenberg AG, Ilsenberg/Harz
- Kupfer und Messingwerke AG, Langenberg/Rheinland
- Sundiger Messingwerke, Iserlohn/Westphalia
- Mährische Stahl- und Eisenindustrie, Olmütz/CSR
- Deutsche Edelstahlwerke AG, plant Hannover
- Deutsche Edelstahlwerke AG, plant Bochum
- Eisen- und Hüttenwerke, Thale/ Harz
- Eisenwerk Gesellschaft Maximilianhütte, Thuringa, several plants
- Klöckner Werke, plant Hespe
- Klöckner Werke, plant Osnabrück
- Klöckner Werke, plant Düsseldorf
- Roechling-Buderus-Stahlwerke, plant Finowfurt/Brandenburg (in BTR ???)
- Roechling-Buderus-Stahlwerke, plant Völklingen
- Roechling-Buderus-Stahlwerke, plant Wetzlar
- Roechling-Buderus-Stahlwerke, plant Hannover

ALUM:
- Aluminiumwerk Nürnberg
- Vereinigte Aluminiumgiessereien Villingen/Schwarzwald

ARM:
- Böhmische Waffenfabrik, several plants / CSR
- Waffenwerke Brünn AG, several plants / CSR
- Munitionsfabriken ( ex Sellier und Bellot), several plants / CSR
- HASAG, Hugo Schneider AG, several plants ( Berlin, Leipzig, Poland, Thuringia)
- Polte Werk, plants : Magdeburg / Grueneburg / Arnstadt

CHEM:
- IG Farben Camera Werk München, Muinch

after looking at Aluminium production , I recognized that they needed lots of Soda and Potash.
Here are the main produceres before and during WW2 in Germany:
Wintershall AG
Burbach-Kaliwerke AG
Salzdetfurth AG
Kali-Chemie AG
Preussag

60 % of the production capacity were located in eastern Germany ( after war the soviet occupied zone - DDR, Poland..)

A/F Wittstock ( between Berlin and A/F Parchim)
A/F Alperstedt (near Gera or near Chemnitz)
A/F Hailtingen (between Stuttgart and the Lake of Constance)
A/F Kirrlach (near Neustadt; between Saarbrucken and Heidelberg)
A/F Lippspringe ( north east of A/F Paderborn)
A/F Werl (northeast of Dortmund)
A/F Stormede (between Dortmund and A/F Paderborn)
A/F Herzebrock ( southwest of Bielefeld)
A/F Nordhorn ( south west of A/F Furstenau)
A/F Hesepe (northeast of Achmer)

there have been som A/F south/southwest of Berlin ( to the height of Bindersleben):

A/F Borkheide
A/F Reinsdorf
A/F Gahro
A/F Finsterwalde
A/F Welzow
A/F Grossenhain
A/F Leutewitz
A/F Canitz
A/F Alteno
A/F Brandis
A/F Pommsen
A/F Lobnitz
A/F Mortitz
A/F Schafstadt
A/F Esperstedt
A/F Eggersdorf

more A/Fs to include for thr Axis side:

A/F Plantlunne (north of A/F Rheine)
A/F Greven (between A/F Handorf and A/F Rheine)
A/F Dortmund (east or northeast of Dortmund)
A/F Kirchellen (North of A/F Dusseldorf)
A/F Bonninghardt (northwest of A/F Dusseldorf)
A/F Mainz-Finthen (near Mainz)
A/F Altenstadt (northeast of Frankfurt am Main)
A/F Herzhausen (between A/F Mainz-Finthen and A/F
Ettinghausen near Koblenz)
A/F Groszsachsenheim (north of Stuzzgart)
A/F Malmsheim ( north of Stuttgart ??)
A/F Donaueschingen ( northwest of the Lake of Constance )
A/F Neuhausen ob Eck ( north of the Lake of Constance )
A/F Tutow (southwest of A/F Greifswald)
A/F Schwerin (northeast of A/F Hagenow and southwest of A/F Parchim)
A/F Reinsehlen & A/F Fassberg & A/F Hustedt ( these three
are in the triangle between Brunswick-Hannover-Hamburg)
A/F Salzwedel (on the line between Stendal (1/3) and
Hamburg (2/3) )
A/F Schonwalde (east of Brunswick)
A/F Sachau ( west ?? of Brunswick)

Styria:

ARM - " Assmann&Söhne, Munitionserzeugung" Leibnitz
ARM - " Sprengstoffwerk Dynamit Nobel AG" St.Lambrecht
ARM - " SchoellerBleckmann Panzerbau" Mürzzuschlag

Tyrol

ARM ?? - " Swarowski - Optische Werke" ; should be comparable with Bausch & Lomb during WW2

Carinthia:
CHEM - "TCW" Treibach
ARM - "Kestag" Ferlach

Lower Austria:
ARM - "Patronenfabrik" + "Kromag Werk" Hirtenberg
ARM - "Patronenfabrik Gustloffwerke" Lichtenwörth
CHEM - "Donauchemie" Moosbierbaum
ARM - "Sprengstoff Werk" + "Waffen/Stahlwerk" Neunkirchen
ARM - " Nibelungenwerke" St.Valentin ( this should be larger in BTR - 44% of all built PzIV were built there; production till end of war - in May 45 they delivered 6x Jagdtiger )

PS:
there was also a "Wilhelm Gustloff Munitionsfabrik" ARM near Bad Vöslau