Matrix Games Forums

Hi,
In my game against GH i atacking forest terrain in Russia,almost 600000 my troops against 150000 his.
I have all crack divisions of SAA here with morale 65-80 and experience above 90. Kwantung area army troops has higher morale but less experience. All troops are well supplied.
Results are terrible,only 0-1.
What i doing wrong?????

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Ground combat at 66,32

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 565215 troops, 5452 guns, 1202 vehicles

Defending force 145006 troops, 1793 guns, 311 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
20838 casualties reported
Guns lost 642
Vehicles lost 96

Allied ground losses:
1977 casualties reported
Guns lost 154
Vehicles lost 3


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Wow, 20,000 losses! That is an a s s kicking right there!

I have no idea what you are doing wrong. What is their fatigue and disruption?

The ground combat system in this game is a mystery.

Are the japanese in forts?

Wow, 20,000 losses! That is an a s s kicking right there!

I have no idea what you are doing wrong. What is their fatigue and disruption?

The ground combat system in this game is a mystery.

Hi Berkut,
I dont like this kind of mistery.
In moment of attack fatigue is about 25-35,and disruption is less then 20 for all troops.
I have four HQ in hex to support attack.

Forest hex will give a defensive bonus, + if your troops have substantial fatigue and/or disruption, can result in a failed attack.

Allied units (in general) also tend to have heavier firepower than Japanese units so attacking a well positioned and supplied enemy can result in serious casuatlies.

Also, look at your leaders. Leaders can be very important for your rolls.

Question:
How is possible that 150000 green Russian stop 600000 elite forces with 0-1 odds???[:-]

How long have the enemy been in that hex?
They'll start to dig in after some time iirc

Fatigue and Disruption can be huge in WitP. From my limited testing, you get something similar to:

Assault Value x
(100 - Fatigue)% x
(100 - Disruption)%

So a unit with a 100 Assault value and

35 Fatigue (malaria effect) = 65 AV
35 Fatigue and 80 Disruption = 13 AV

It's not that simple of course. You're also modified for prep, leaders, terrain, HQs, and sh_t load of other stuff. But "ball park testing" indicates that Fatigue and Disruption will utterly ruin your day.

-F-

Forest hex will give a defensive bonus, + if your troops have substantial fatigue and/or disruption, can result in a failed attack.

Look above in posts,my troops has no significant fatigue/disruption.

Also, look at your leaders. Leaders can be very important for your rolls.

Whole cream of Japanese comanders is here.

Easy, if the conditions are right. A 4-1 advantage in troop numbers does not automatically constitute a victory (1:1 or better) in this game, nor any other that i'm aware of.

Again, look at your forces condition before attacking, look at the terrain, the probable fort levels of the enemy, their current state (were they disrupted, were they bombarded or were they sitting there fresh and waiting for you?) Check your leaders....many LCU's start this game with leaders not optimal for their current position (example, i've found a few commanders who are best suited for "rear area HQ's" commanding frontline LCU's)

Keep in mind too your casualties are an abstraction. You didn't lose 20,000 men, you mainly lost alot of disabled men which range from badly wounded to shell shocked. Given time they do recover most of their strength. Keep grinding in a useless assault however, and you'll quickly have combat ineffective units.

In moment of attack fatigue is about 25-35,and disruption is less then 20 for all troops.
I have four HQ in hex to support attack.

Didn't notice that before.

-F-

Fatigue and Disruption can be huge in WitP. From my limited testing, you get something similar to:

Assault Value x
(100 - Fatigue)% x
(100 - Disruption)%

So a unit with a 100 Assault value and

35 Fatigue (malaria effect) = 65 AV
35 Fatigue and 80 Disruption = 13 AV

It's not that simple of course. You're also modified for prep, leaders, terrain, HQs, and sh_t load of other stuff. But "ball park testing" indicates that Fatigue and Disruption will utterly ruin your day.

-F-

His unist also has disruption.
His units are GREEN with little experience.
I have whole SAA units here and Imerial guards has 98 exp.,others are also above 90.

ORIGINAL: hawker

Look above in posts,my troops has no significant fatigue/disruption.

How about your enemies?

Whole cream of Japanese comanders is here.

By that i take it you went through and swapped out leaders? Assuming you did....all fine and good. It will increase your chances of success but won't gurantee it. There is a large amount of variability built into the game....there is no "magic" formula. Did you bombard initially? air attacks? Or did you just frontally assault?

ORIGINAL: hawker

Question:
How is possible that 150000 green Russian stop 600000 elite forces with 0-1 odds???[:-]

MY OPINION : 150000 can't stop 600000. The big question is what year is it? Again, IMO, it's inherently built into the game that the Allies are crap in the beginning stages of the war, the Japanese in the latter. It's one of the biggest drawbacks of the game is that you REALLY CAN'T alter history. Battles may have different conclusions...but the game ultimately rushes toward the same ending as the real war.

By that i take it you went through and swapped out leaders? Assuming you did....all fine and good. It will increase your chances of success but won't gurantee it. There is a large amount of variability built into the game....there is no "magic" formula. Did you bombard initially? air attacks? Or did you just frontally assault?

I did a occasional air attacks(few).
I just cant believe that 600000 units against 150000 gain only 0-1.
And dont forget,this troops are elite.

MY OPINION : 150000 can't stop 600000. The big question is what year is it? Again, IMO, it's inherently built into the game that the Allies are crap in the beginning stages of the war, the Japanese in the latter. It's one of the biggest drawbacks of the game is that you REALLY CAN'T alter history. Battles may have different conclusions...but the game ultimately rushes toward the same ending as the real war.

Its 07/42. So,early in war.

Units that defend in non-base hexes are invincible![;)]

If they were in a base, they would fold right up.[:D]

Those Sovs are probably forted up pretty good. Have they been in that hex awhile?

ORIGINAL: hawker

I did a occasional air attacks(few).
I just cant believe that 600000 units against 150000 gain only 0-1.
And dont forget,this troops are elite.

well again, you had a 4:1 edge in numbers...not decisive in my opinion. Common wisdom holds you need a minimum 3:1 edge for victory against an entrenched opponent, more recent reading has suggested 5:1 or better. Most of all you have to understand there is heavy abstraction going on here. This is not an tactical level game. You have two assault options.....deliberate attack (normal attack) and shock attack (Japanese = banzai! attack) There are no probing attacks, no flanking attacks, no enveloping attacks etc etc.....the figures go into a formula and static values (terrain/skill etc) are tied into variables that can alter the results. No gurantees. Not laughing at you but i always find posts like this funny, because most of the time people are complaining that the game is to fast, too easy to do this or that.

Not this time it seems. Assuming you did most everything right (which it appears you didnt' because there wasn't much in the way of prep by the sound of it) your attack can still draw bad rolls and fail. Chalk it up to an initial attack, a straight up frontal assault against a prepared position which stalled and took heavy losses in the ensuing counter bombardment. That happened alot in WWI. [;)]

Next attack might do better....maybe a leader roll will succeed and a more well thought out attack is abstractly played out. I'd let your troops rest first though.....with numbers that high your disruption is probably sky high.

Bring in some airpower.

Consider a hex-based flanking move?

Its 07/42. So,early in war.

I've seen LCU's in non base hexes build as high as 6 fort levels. Bad news for you if thats the case.

Do you have engineers?