Matrix Games Forums

There is a naval sim in the works called "Distant Guns", it looks like will feature a copy protection scheme where you have to connect to a server to activate it for the first time, and afterwards,use some sort of utility to export your "license" to a disk/pen/CDRW to activate an install in another computer.
There is a argument going on in some forums and on the USENET about this, some say that it looks too complicated and unfriendly when compared to a serial-number scheme, but the developers say that this sort of copy protection is essential for selling direct download games.
So, I'm curious, if this sort of thing is vital for direct download games, then why I haven't I run into it when I bought TS:Julius Caesar, for example? Is there some sort of hidden copy protection mechanism in Matrix's games? Are there plans to implement it in future releases? Is Matrix taking a financial hit by refusing to implement it? [&:]

Our experience has been that our copy protection is as effective as any more intrusive method when it comes to casual piracy. There's always a balance between protection and hassle, but with most protection schemes out there already broken within days of release, we believe the right choice is to provide as little hassle as possible for paying customers while keeping a non-intrusive serial check to restrict casual piracy.

As for the DG copy protection, I haven't seen it or tried it, but we discussed various internet activation methods a while back and decided against them for purchased titles. Such protection may be a good option for purposes of trialware that could be used as a demo and then converted to a full game, but I don't think it would be worth the hassle for customers who outright purchase a game.

Regards,

- Erik

Thanks for the info, I guess that this sort of copy protection isn't as necessary as the DG developers say it is.
Sometimes when I read discussions about DRM and PC gaming, I think of your company and how you apparently managed to defy conventional wisdom and suceed. I mean...
You sell wargames, historical strategy games, etc... , without the latest 3D effects and big franchises, games wich aren't supposed to have mass appeal and wich the "big boys" have droped.
You don't spend millions in development (at least, I don't think so [;)]) and publicity, you don't have "superproductions".
You don't use elaborate DRM and copy protection schemes to try to protect your games.
So it looks like you are breaking (almost) every "rule" dictated by the traditional "common sense". And yet, you are a sucess...
Sometimes I think that you and other small indie companies willing to take risks and go after the "niches" are the real future of PC gaming instead of EA or Atari.[:)]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Our experience has been that our copy protection is as effective as any more intrusive method when it comes to casual piracy. There's always a balance between protection and hassle, but with most protection schemes out there already broken within days of release, we believe the right choice is to provide as little hassle as possible for paying customers while keeping a non-intrusive serial check to restrict casual piracy

Erik - that IS the best, most sensible statement I've EVER heard with regard to copy protection.

These companies spend hundreds of thousands of pounds for copy protection - which is broken. And the only people these god forsaken copy protection programs hurt or affect are the paying public.

Mr CrackGamesAllDay doesn't mind swinging round the trees to get the game working...so the only person annoyed by such protection are people like me...and I, for one, am fed up with disks being required, taking ages to spin up and do it's check before reporting it's an invalid disk...only to reinsert the disk, wait ages for it to spin up and check and let you in!!

I'm very glad to hear Matrix have a sensible approach to copy protection and customer satisfaction.

I cannot see any reason for copyprotection as they appear today. As far as I know, all has been cracked. And the greed has led to an industry-wide desperation which lead to such things as the Sony protection, Star Force, and the insane visions they have of DRM. Those who don't care about laws (both proper laws and those the industry design) find it all amusing, because they are not affected. Instead the rest of us are. I cannot believe that the effects of piracy even show up on the net total $ for the big companies, except that they spend billions of $ to combat the ghost. Neither for Matrix and the like, simply because of the narrow niche they sell to.

If it doesn't work, why use it?


JT

Why don't you all just pick up on Stardocks copy protection scheme. Like there is NONE!. Don't have to have the cd in the drive nothing, nada. I like their style. Why punish your customers when your game is gonna get hacked and pirated anyways and those people hacking and pirating aren't going to buy the game anyways. Stardock finally sees the light.

Hi Ravinhood

We do not require you to have our CD in the drive now and we do not prevent you from backing up your game.

David

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Why don't you all just pick up on Stardocks copy protection scheme. Like there is NONE!. Don't have to have the cd in the drive nothing, nada. I like their style. Why punish your customers when your game is gonna get hacked and pirated anyways and those people hacking and pirating aren't going to buy the game anyways. Stardock finally sees the light.

Stardock does have copy protection for the initial download if you buy from them, it's built into their Stardock Client. Basically, it's server-side, somewhat like our downloads from Digital River, but they use a separate client like Steam to enable it. After that, they and we have about the same copy protection - an activation code. I have nothing against the client/server model, but we're not planning to move to that model at present. Our existing solution doesn't require the CD. I really wonder if you read what I posted or have looked at the protection system we use.

Regards,

- Erik

Thankfully, most of my online purchases have been through Matrix Games. Their copy protection scheme hasn't inconvenienced me at all. That can't be said for a recent purchase of Space Empires IV from Strategy First. There was no lock on the installation program, but it did require an online activation through Digital River the first time you boot up the game. "First time" is the operative phrase. It seems that the 'invisible' security key was tied to my laptop configuration, so that when I removed a usb wireless adapter, the game no longer recognized my computer as 'validated.' In the end, Strategy First made it right by providing me with the actual key, so I don't want to come down too hard on them, but their protection scheme has some kinks that need working out.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Our experience has been that our copy protection is as effective as any more intrusive method when it comes to casual piracy. There's always a balance between protection and hassle, but with most protection schemes out there already broken within days of release, we believe the right choice is to provide as little hassle as possible for paying customers while keeping a non-intrusive serial check to restrict casual piracy.

As for the DG copy protection, I haven't seen it or tried it, but we discussed various internet activation methods a while back and decided against them for purchased titles. Such protection may be a good option for purposes of trialware that could be used as a demo and then converted to a full game, but I don't think it would be worth the hassle for customers who outright purchase a game.

Regards,

- Erik

AMEN! [&o][&o][&o]

We do not require you to have our CD in the drive now and we do not prevent you from backing up your game.

David

I hope you guys never change this policy. As someone else said any protection put on a CD will be soon cracked by the pirates anyway. The end result is always people who buy the games can't make backups for damaged or worn out disk.

I'm not sure about it but I have even read some of these protection devices some companies are putting on their disk can even damage hard drives and/or CD players. Starforce is a name that keeps coming up.

I don't know how others feel but if my $1000 PC got racked buy some protection software on a game CD I'd be a pretty pissed SOB. [:@]

ORIGINAL: pvicente

.. but the developers say that this sort of copy protection is essential for selling direct download games.

Yup... I'm imagining the the huge amounts of illegal downloading, and consequent lost sales, of a game about the Russian-Japanese War at Sea. [8|]

How "essential" it is depends on the nature of the game, IMHO. I can see this losing them more sales than it preserves.

At least the discussion on this topic is civil here at Matrix. Some of the name-calling & screaming going on in the "discussions" at SZO & the Usenet are ludicrous. [:-] Glad to see the Matrix crowd maintaining their composure. [:)]

Oh yes Bal,

Here in this forum are a group of wise, mature,aged and respectful gamers[8D]

Well, there's pretty much no choise . Btw, BAL, do you have links to the sites mentioned?

JT

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Well, there's pretty much no choise . Btw, BAL, do you have links to the sites mentioned?

JT

Strategy Zone forums :

http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forum ... y.php?f=29

Pick the Distant Guns forum

UseNet : http://groups-beta.google.com/group/com ... historical

Read and weep at the level of customer support and outright hostility displayed by the developers of the game to pretty legitimate and polite questions.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

,

ORIGINAL: sterckxe

Read and weep at the level of customer support and outright hostility displayed by the developers of the game to pretty legitimate and polite questions.

Indeed. It pays to try and keep a balanced view of such things, but that's certainly rather difficult in the case of Mr Rose.