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This is a request going out to everyone to post on the thread of this same name in the OOB/TOE's/Equipment forum known errata found in the v7.0 or v7.1 beta OOBs.

Now is your chance to help get this fixed. Let's make v7.1 as error free as we can.

Thanks,
Brian

Come on people, please help out here if you can. Paul has begun issuing the release candidate OOBs to the 7.1 beta team for review and minor modification under my leadership. We have the capability/authority to make error corrections to the 7.1 OOBs prior to their release *but* WE NEED YOUR HELP!

Thanks,
Brian

Brian - I made some comments in there as well as another thread of yours.

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
Brian - I made some comments in there as well as another thread of yours.

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Thanks Richard, your help is greatly appreciated <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Brian

Originally posted by Brian Price:
This is a request going out to everyone to post on the thread of this same name in the OOB/TOE's/Equipment forum known errata found in the v7.0 or v7.1 beta OOBs.

Now is your chance to help get this fixed. Let's make v7.1 as error free as we can.

Thanks,
Brian

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Hello Brian:

Thanks for sending along the OOBs for perusal. At first glance I'd have to have a big thank you to matrix for reducing the amount of ft in engineer companies. Having a seperate company which handles the ft is the next best thing to having seperate ft units imo.

However some longtime errors have come to light perhaps made obvious by some of the corrections in this version.

I'm grateful that now a standard german infantry squad will have mp38\40 smg support. i am distressed that ss squads have them removed. it's a pity because these darn smgs are real infantry killers, even in lower slots.

my source for these comments will be the handbook of german military force us war dept mar 1 1945 (reprinted). the tables are helpful, but another source for earlier periods would be even moreso.

in chapter II organization of field forces a good resource exists to support what type of weapons typical units used (Hq units differ, and vary).

a type 44 infantry platoon was equipped with:1 officers, 3 nco's, 29 privates, 22 rifles or carbines, 5 pistols, 7 submachine guns, and 4 lmgs. 2 horse drawn vehicles, 2 trailers, 2 horses.

a volks grenadier company had 2 smg platoons, 1 rifle platoon.

the smg platoon in comparison to the infantry platoon above had 1/3/29 5/2/26/3 2/1/3

the rifle platoon 0/4/29 20/4/9/3 2/1/3

a panzer grenadier platoon of an armoured division
1/3/26 12/10/8/9/ 4 armoured personnel carriers

a motorised pzgr platoon of an armoured division

1/4/38 26/13/4/6 5 mtr vehicles

a motorised engineer platoon of an armoured div

1/5/41 36/5/6/4 6flamethrowers 6 mtr veh 1 mtrcl

a half tracked engineer company armoured div

1/7/50 41/7/10/8 8ft 10 mtr vehicle (inc apc)
2 motorcycles

a parachute rifle platoon

1/38inc nco 16/159/6 2 motor vehicles.

a security company

1/3/32 22/5/10/3 2/0/4

SS units are not broken down to this detail , however at division levels an ss armoured division of 11513 rifles or carbines, 4064 pistols, 2050 smgs, 1465 lmgs, and 100 hmgs
(17000 men)

compares to an army armoured division (14000)
9186/3317/1543/1157/64

or to a parachute division (16000)
9689/3819/3026/930/80

volksgrenadier (10000)

6054/1536/2064/369/54

infantry division old type (17000)

15500/1100/700/527/116

infantry division 1944 type 12500)

9069/1981/1503/566/90


some squad counts.

Rifle squad infantry division 1944 type.

1 officer or 1 nco/8 privates/6 Rifles or Carbines/1 Pistol/2 Smgs/ 1 Lmg

SMG squad Volks Grenadier Division

0/1/8 0/0/9/0 This resembles a tankodesantniki sq.

Rifle Squad Volks Grenadier Division

0/1/8 6/1/2/1


An example of a rifle company small combat team 87 men

Co Hq 1 officer 1 NCO 5 Privates
6 Carbines 0 Pistols 1 Smg 0 Lmg 0 Hmg 0 pzfst

1st squad 0/1/7 4/2/1/1/0/0
2nd 0/1/7 4/2/1/1/0/0
3rd 0/2/8 7/2/1/2/0/0
4th 0/1/8 6/2/1/2/0/0
Hv Mg sec 0/2/6 6/4/0/0/2/0
engr counter attack sec
0/2/28 24/3/3/3/0/0
engr at platoon
0/1/6 6/0/1/0/0/6

Interesting reading but how does it compare to game stats. Well I believe the german infantry squad is all powerful now. The SS' substitution of a rifle grenade for smg makes it weak. engineers or pioneers shouldn't have smgs as primary weapons, only VGs have solid smg squads, but to the detriment of the real killer the lmg 42, (the rifle squad has one).

The combat team. Well thats were I'd like to see those weapons like 2 man AT teams, equipped with PF, Mines, Fts, Pzbuche, rifle grenades, etc attached at company level. It may have been common for every second US squad to have a bazooka, but I don't think it was quite that common in the german army. maybe we overequip WW2 soldiers. Odd observation is, just about any player can beat a tank heavy opponent by purchasing infantry squads loaded up with at weapons.

[ February 10, 2002: Message edited by: Galka ]</p>

Addendum: Selected quotes from Alex Buchner's book "The German Infantry Handbook"

"only with the introduction of the panzerfaust in mid 1943 was the individual fighting man given a useful one-man antitank weapon with which he could take on a tank from a certain distance. But this weapon reached the front only slowly, and so the antitank weapons of a company in the summer of 1944 still added up to just two panzerfaust shells, two 3 kilogram and two one kilogram engineer charges, two smoke grenatdes, two smoke blocks and two T-mines..."

"the 18 machine pistol, also knownas the MPi Bergmann, which had appeared during WWI, and put it into general use. In the western campaign in 1940 there were only three of them per company, one for each platoon leader. Only in 1941 did the MPi 40, a slightly improved version of the already developed MPi 38, reach the troops."

"The Panzerjager company of the infantry regiment was fully motorized and consisted of four platoons, each with three antitank guns and a total of 12 light machine guns.."

Close Antitank Combat
"An example of the equipment of a 4-man troop lying in ambush:

Troop leader: Pistol (MPi or automatic rifle), one magnetic charge, two hand grenades, two twin smoke grenades, one short spade.
Blinder: pistol, smoke bombs, two hand grenades, two twin smoke grenades, one sort spade.
Destroyer: Pistol, smoke bombs, one magnetic charge, one T-mnie with anchor hooks (or one 3 kilogram concentric charge) with detonator and three detonators (in reserve), 7 cm long, in a container two hand grenades, one short spade.
Securer: Rifle, one magnetic charge, one T-mine with anchor hook (or one 3 kilogram concentric charge) and three detonators..two hand grenades, one short spade. Additional personnel are to be equipped similarly to the securer."

"An lFH 18 battery was ready to fire 45 minutes after receiving instructions."

"Engineer flamethrower troops were used along with engineer or infantry shock troops. Successful action was usually possible only whe the flamethrower troops could be held ready unseen just a short distance from the action. A combat principle was that one flamethrower operator was never deployed alone, but that two men were always used together, so they could support each other when advancing and fighting. thus the strength of a flamethrower troop was to consist of one troop leader and one flamethrower operator with auxiliary men."

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Galka ]</p>

Brian, here's a little something from the Blitz board. Haven't checked it out myself:


Has anyone else noticed that the German VG bicycle sqd is listed as an elite unit, but plays as second line? I am angrily finding this out in a current game I am playing. One shot suppresses the unit to the tune of 26 suppression points! What is really maddening is that you are charged the "elite" price for them. Their shooting ability is horrible, and even though I had a unit that did not move, it still only close assaulted a tank in the woods with a Pzfaust at 9% (no suppression).

Now, I always assumed that VG units were second line units anyway, so the game stating that they are elite was surprising. None the less, I decided to give them a go....too bad. Wasted a bunch of points for garbage.

This is not an OOB error but I think you will find it helpfull. While playing the "lost victories" I have encountered an error in one of the briefing documents. One of the pictures (of the briefing screen of battle of Dubno) shows a captured russian T26 tank. The tank in the picture is not T26; it's a KV1. So the information below the picture is incorrect. Please check it.

I personally would like to see the British infantry sections equipped primarily with the Bren and not the Lewis and perhaps more importantly, Cruiser tanks given the British designation A9, A10, A13 Cruiser etc instead of Cruiser I, II, or III. Minor point I know but historically more correct. Other than that I cannot in all honesty citisize what has been a terrific effort by everyone involved in the SPWAW project. Many thanks.