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When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:20 pm
by el cid again
There are problems with the present situation:
1) No one ever has finished a game to the end of the scenario - and Joe says no one ever will because the system will crash first. The 32 k pilot limit is a technical reason he is probably right: there is no chance we will ever see Tiger Force work in this context. Japan should start with over 5,000 pilots (and does start with over 3,000) - the Allies counting Soviets and Chinese (and even Empire flying boats) start at over 10,000. 32 k is not enough even if Japan does not build for air (the Allies are fixed and I don't think they can kill air units very effectively) - so a war lasting into 1945 is going to be a miracle. But 1946?
2) There are many missing units that would show up by 1946 - never mind after the year begins - and not enough slots to add them
3) There are other missing units - even types of airplanes - that are in more useful years - and we could add them if we got rid of late stuff never really in WWII at all
4) It is not likely Japan could survive much after the USSBS said it could (1 November 1945) and almost impossible for it to last past 1 January 1946. IF a player DID survive that long -and if the country was not decisively defeated - it would be a great victory.
4)
RE: When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:24 am
by akdreemer
ORIGINAL: el cid again
There are problems with the present situation:
1) No one ever has finished a game to the end of the scenario - and Joe says no one ever will because the system will crash first. The 32 k pilot limit is a technical reason he is probably right: there is no chance we will ever see Tiger Force work in this context. Japan should start with over 5,000 pilots (and does start with over 3,000) - the Allies counting Soviets and Chinese (and even Empire flying boats) start at over 10,000. 32 k is not enough even if Japan does not build for air (the Allies are fixed and I don't think they can kill air units very effectively) - so a war lasting into 1945 is going to be a miracle. But 1946?
2) There are many missing units that would show up by 1946 - never mind after the year begins - and not enough slots to add them
3) There are other missing units - even types of airplanes - that are in more useful years - and we could add them if we got rid of late stuff never really in WWII at all
4) It is not likely Japan could survive much after the USSBS said it could (1 November 1945) and almost impossible for it to last past 1 January 1946. IF a player DID survive that long -and if the country was not decisively defeated - it would be a great victory.
4)
Here I am total agreement with you. So are you recommending a Nov 1 1945 cutoff then for reinforcements?
RE: When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:25 am
by el cid again
Here I am total agreement with you. So are you recommending a Nov 1 1945 cutoff then for reinforcements?
The only recommendation I have yet heard (privately) is
"end the game at the end of August if atom bombs are used, or on 1 November if they are not used"
I myself am inclined to say "end the game at the end of August if atom bombs are used or at the end of 1945 if they are not used"
and in that case - yes - I would end reinforcements of all kinds on 1 November 1945.
But when I first mentioned getting rid of Lancaster, it was not popular!
People wanted Tiger Force! I now realize it won't work - except in a 1945 only scenario possibly.
UNLESS there is a work around for pilots. Is there a generic pilot that prevents pilot count from rising?
RE: When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:15 pm
by Monter_Trismegistos
I would propose other way: end the game at the end of August if Kwanting army was smashed by Soviets or at the end of 1945 if they are not smashed.
RE: When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:10 pm
by akdreemer
ORIGINAL: el cid again
Here I am total agreement with you. So are you recommending a Nov 1 1945 cutoff then for reinforcements?
But when I first mentioned getting rid of Lancaster, it was not popular!
People wanted Tiger Force! I now realize it won't work - except in a 1945 only scenario possibly.
Having about finished the Forgotten Air War the US was willing only to help build bases for the force on Okinawa for the Tiger Force only if the British supplied all of the necessary support for it. They had identified targets for the Tallboys. Thus the historical political-military aspect would be that they would have had to operate off of British supplied and manned bases. As it happened the two convoys for supporting this force were diverted at the end of the war to help secure parts of coastal China. Tiger Force might have a limited role if the game lasted to at least September.
However, players can, and do, ignore any or all of the above with the structure of the game as it is now. So since they would have arrived by late August I would say they should be in the game.
RE: When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:51 pm
by el cid again
I would propose other way: end the game at the end of August if Kwanting army was smashed by Soviets or at the end of 1945 if they are not smashed.
_____________________________
This is very intelligent. The way I read the minutes of the Imperial Conference which surrendered (BEFORE Nagasaki by the way - the second atom bomb was NOT a factor in the surrender decision)
is that the Soviet invasion was what crushed any hope of sustaining the war and hopefully "winning" a battle of attrition against the invasion of Kyushu.
Note that I cannot write code - so I cannot FORCE the game to end (unless I learn something) on two different dates. I can only RECOMMEND a standard to players for the earlier date - they can disagree for any reason and continue!
RE: When should the campaign scenario end?
Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:55 pm
by el cid again
Having about finished the Forgotten Air War the US was willing only to help build bases for the force on Okinawa for the Tiger Force only if the British supplied all of the necessary support for it. They had identified targets for the Tallboys. Thus the historical political-military aspect would be that they would have had to operate off of British supplied and manned bases. As it happened the two convoys for supporting this force were diverted at the end of the war to help secure parts of coastal China. Tiger Force might have a limited role if the game lasted to at least September.
However, players can, and do, ignore any or all of the above with the structure of the game as it is now. So since they would have arrived by late August I would say they should be in the game.
I believe in maximizing player options. Obviously special mods (the Tempest II, a special version of the Mosquito, and two versions of the Lancaster) not ready to be operational before 1946 - or even late 1945 - can be ruled out. But the existing Lancaster, the Tempest V (which strangely is earlier than the Tempest II - a different plane), and existing Mosquito units in India could be sent. So I the question comes down to units - and that is the next review - but the Lancaster itself should stay - and I had added Tempest V because of a unit in India already.