Matrix Games Forums

With the release of TOAW 3 just a few weeks away, we thought we'd take the opportunity to whet your appetite for the Matrix Games edition of this classic game. We'll start with one of the new advanced game options that will be available, the "No Borders" option.

This feature will add an additional layer to the "Fog of War". There are many scenarios that will benefit from this option. For example, those dealing with early 20th century warfare, fast-paced desert battles, and guerrilla-intensive scenarios, where an enforceable means of limited battlefield intelligence is called for. In earlier versions of TOAW, players had the option of toggling the hex supply display, borders, and hex possession icons off. However, this combination of options was chosen from the control panel or menu, and left something to be desired. First off, the owning player was then completely unaware of whether his own forces would be able to trace supply, and would not know until after the following ABP, by which time they would already be tagged unsupplied. Further, it was unenforceable. A less than honorable opponent could easily turn back on borders and supply for his turn and surreptitiously gain an advantage. This unenforceability led to many players choosing to eschew a designer's recommendations of playing without visible borders, simply to ensure that the game was on the level.

Obviously, not all scenarios should be played with this option on, and not all players will find the lack of information to their liking. However, it is ideal for those players who want an additional level of challenge in the game, both against the Programmed Opponent (PO), as well as against other human players. In solo games, it will be able to be toggled on and off at will, but for PBEM games, once set, it is in effect for the entire game.

What does choosing the option do? I'm glad you asked...[:D]

From the revised manual and help files:

No Borders: You can only see the borders and supply rate for hexes that your forces are adjacent to, or have occupied this turn. This is an additional means of increasing the fog of war.

Here's a screenshot of it activated. The upload limits here require that I can only show a small portion of the map...[:(]

Hi!

Could you clear up something here for me...

Does this mean that if enemy forces move into your territory you won't be able to "see" them (as in the frontier line moving) unless a unit is within recon distance?

Does it also mean that you won't be able to tell if a railroad hex has been destroyed unless one of your units actually moves through the area?

Thanks for the update BTW. Keep them coming!

Ray (alias Lava)

ORIGINAL: Lava

Does this mean that if enemy forces move into your territory you won't be able to "see" them (as in the frontier line moving) unless a unit is within recon distance?

From the looks of things, unless the hex is 'observed' or 'spotted'. In short you won't be able to tell the unit is there unless you can physically see the icon on the map.

Does it also mean that you won't be able to tell if a railroad hex has been destroyed unless one of your units actually moves through the area?

I doubt that broken rail would be invisible. But that's fair enough since cutting a rail line is a dead giveaway (unless you're a guerrilla unit and don't change hex ownership anyway).

Anyway, good start. An optional addition which adds extra functionality (the ability to check your supply situation in such scenarios). The next step is to have this option set per force using events....

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Anyway, good start. An optional addition which adds extra functionality (the ability to check your supply situation in such scenarios).

I'm not sure what you mean here? The supply and borders options are still available, hoever, they only apply to hexes which are adjacent to your units. If you look at the screenshot, the supplied hexes and the level of supply in them are clearly visible.

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

I'm not sure what you mean here? The supply and borders options are still available, hoever, they only apply to hexes which are adjacent to your units. If you look at the screenshot, the supplied hexes and the level of supply in them are clearly visible.

Sorry, I was just saying what I liked about the new feature. There's a suspicion that a great many of the changes being made to the game involve just securing against foul play. This change does that- but it also adds extra functionality on top of it.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
This change does that- but it also adds extra functionality on top of it.

That's what it seems like to me.. and I like it.

Ray (alias Lava)

Oh dear...
I see those rivers are still IN the hexes.
I know some people say it doesnt matter but sorry it means all kinds of movement anomolies that killed the original for me.
So thats not changed then ?

Oh and another thing - I seem to remember in the original game that supply tracing was un-affected by terrain.
Is this still the case ?
What this meant was that you could just as easily trace supply through a 6ft deep swamp as you could through a 4 lane highway.
I apologise if I'm thinking of another game but Im sure it was this one. Another little thing that stopped me playing. here was so much to like about this game was kind of hoping Matrix would be changing these issues.

ORIGINAL: DBeves

I see those rivers are still IN the hexes.

Changing this outright would mean every single existing scenario would have to be rewritten.

What this meant was that you could just as easily trace supply through a 6ft deep swamp as you could through a 4 lane highway.
I apologise if I'm thinking of another game but Im sure it was this one.

You must have been thinking of another game. Supply trace is heavily affected by terrain in TOAW and always has been.

Hey, I'm a recent Born-Again TOAW player.....and I've forgotten what the supply numbers mean...

Say I have a unit at 50% supply, and it's sittin' on a hex that shows supply of "25"....does that mean the next turn the unit will be at 75% supply? What's the adjacent HQ bonus?

Thanks,

ChadG

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: DBeves

I see those rivers are still IN the hexes.

Changing this outright would mean every single existing scenario would have to be rewritten.

What this meant was that you could just as easily trace supply through a 6ft deep swamp as you could through a 4 lane highway.
I apologise if I'm thinking of another game but Im sure it was this one.

You must have been thinking of another game. Supply trace is heavily affected by terrain in TOAW and always has been.

Ok - I guess I will have to take your word for it - would have thought terrain was a game engine thing not a specific scenario thing but hey....maybe the terrains in the scenario files although would't have thought it impossible to write some conversion thing - I guess they are going to charge us full price for this thing ?

Oh well must be wrong about that one then - what game was it now ......

ORIGINAL: Juggalo

Say I have a unit at 50% supply, and it's sittin' on a hex that shows supply of "25"....does that mean the next turn the unit will be at 75% supply?

The base level of supply gained is the number you see (25) multiplied by the formation supply level.

What's the adjacent HQ bonus?

A co-operative HQ boosts supply gain by 50%. So sayeth the (deeply flawed) manual.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


The base level of supply gained is the number you see (25) multiplied by the formation supply level.

OK, so where can you find the "formation supply level"?

Am I correct in guessing the scenario designer sets that attribute and it's invisible to the player?

Take a look at the formation profiency and you have the number for the formation supply level.

ORIGINAL: Juggalo

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


The base level of supply gained is the number you see (25) multiplied by the formation supply level.

OK, so where can you find the "formation supply level"?

Am I correct in guessing the scenario designer sets that attribute and it's invisible to the player?

The formation supply level is nominally set in the force editor. It will drop from the nominal, if the designer has used support squads in the formation's HQ(s), and some of them have been lost. Otherwise, it remains constant, if no support squads are used in the formation's HQ's. As a player, you can see this percentage, by looking at the unit's formation report. It is the "supply" number in the upper right. In the example below, the formation supply level is 65%.

The supply received by the unit is equal to the [map value*fsl*(2/3)], before any modifiers for adjacent cooperative HQ's or supply units. The (2/3) multiplier is, unfortunately, undocumented in the manuals of earlier versions of TOAW.

Thanks JAM and Golden D.

Now onto Feature Preview #2!

Sorry, one more question about supply then I swear I'll shut-up forever on the subject....

What do the full yellow circles and half blue, half yellow circles signify?

Thanks again,
ChadG

I think a few of us are lapsed CoW players here, so the changes don't have the impact that some of the fanatics are maybe seeing. The changes seem fairly subtle so far. If you have something big in the list of changes, pull it out of the hat.