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Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:10 am
by JAMiAM
This feature is a personal favorite of mine. This is the Max Rounds Per Battle setting, found in the Force Editor. From the entry of the revised manual...
Max Rounds Per Battle
It is possible to set Max Rounds Per Battle (MRPB) value for a scenario by using the Edit > Set Max Rounds Per Battle item in the Force and Deployment Editor menus.

This value sets the maximum number of rounds that the attacking forces will execute, for all battles, in each series of combats. The default value is 99. The minimum value is 1 and the maximum is 99.

This value can have a wide variety of different effects, particularly when coupled with shock events. Low MRPB values can minimize “turn burn” but at the cost of attacks not having enough tactical rounds to retreat defenders. Low MRPB values can also yield better results from using tactical and local reserve deployment settings. You can more safely use progressively higher loss tolerance settings for attacks, with low MRPB values, since the number of tactical rounds that stubborn units continue attacks and defenses will be attenuated.

While some scenarios will benefit from very low MRPB values, it is generally not recommended to set it lower than 3, as this also attenuates the number of rounds that artillery, naval, and air units will bombard for, at their higher loss tolerance settings, and may also adversely affect the net bonuses that positive shock values have in reducing the number of tactical rounds expended during combat. It is recommended that scenario designers using shock events generally set this value to be no less than ((highest value shock – 70)/10). Your mileage may vary. Playtest for overall effect through the campaign.

Another effect to keep in mind when setting this value, is that the chance for ending the turn by a “proficiency check” is not affected. Thus, while players may realize more sets of attacks throughout their turn, with low MRPB values, they will conversely be more likely to have the turn ended (eventually) by a failed proficiency check, since one is made at the end of each series of attacks. See Turnover, on page 58.

Scenario designers who change this from the default should indicate in their scenario briefing, the value used.

For the initial release, it will be limited to being set in the scenario editor, and once set, is in effect for both players during the course of the entire scenario. However, if it is well enough received, we might be able to talk Ralph into figuring out how to make the feature work, as a player-adjustable option, that can be changed over the course of the game, or even within a turn.

As many long term players of TOAW know, there is a problem often referred to as "turn burn" whereby somewhere on the map, units stubbornly continue attacking, tactical round, after tactical round, until all ten rounds have been used up, and the turn ends, with your units bereft of movement points and unable to exploit the successes that might have been gained elsewhere on the map. WWII desert tank battles often suffer from this pretty severely, as do many of the larger (and popular) scenarios. By placing such a "limiter" on the number of tactical rounds that each battle in a series can last, this effect can be attenuated to whatever level a scenario designer desires. Obviously, if two players are likewise agreeable, then one of them could modify the scenario before starting, to whatever value they feel comfortable using.

Image

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:10 pm
by golden delicious
ORIGINAL: JAMiAM
For the initial release, it will be limited to being set in the scenario editor, and once set, is in effect for both players during the course of the entire scenario. However, if it is well enough received, we might be able to talk Ralph into figuring out how to make the feature work, as a player-adjustable option, that can be changed over the course of the game, or even within a turn.

I would really rather it not be player-adjustable (or at the very least, only player-adjustable if the designer says it's OK). Modifiable by event, however, would be good. Also it would be neat if this were a per-force value. I could see using that creatively.

The problem is that whilst "turn burn" might seem unrealistic in the short view, overall it provides uncertainty which is very real in war.

Anyway, interesting feature, and one which will certainly be used. I think Jarek in particular will like this. I take it that with the value set at 99 the game will perform the same way it does currently?

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:30 pm
by macgregor
Modifiable by event, however, would be good.

Agreed. Certainly weather might affect rounds in a turm.

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:25 pm
by JAMiAM
ORIGINAL: golden delicious

I take it that with the value set at 99 the game will perform the same way it does currently?
That's correct.

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:26 pm
by ralphtricky
99 (any large number, actually) will perfom the same as currently. This is really aimed as a 'quick fix' for the problem seen in some large scenarios where one unit one one front can use up a whole turn for the entire side.

One thing that Jamian forgot to mention (I'm sure he just forgot [;)]) was that this a setting of 3 does NOT mean that combat will stop on rounds 4, 7 and 10. If you move a unit across the map and attack,using up 9 rounds in moving before attacking, The battle will start on round 9, and then last one round, and the turn will end. This is not something totally brainless that you can rely on, you're going to have to think a little, and make some decisions.



RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:44 pm
by JAMiAM
ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

One thing that Jamian forgot to mention (I'm sure he just forgot [;)]) was that this a setting of 3 does NOT mean that combat will stop on rounds 4, 7 and 10. If you move a unit across the map and attack,using up 9 rounds in moving before attacking, The battle will start on round 9, and then last one round, and the turn will end. This is not something totally brainless that you can rely on, you're going to have to think a little, and make some decisions.
I didn't "forget". More of an active neglect really, since it wasn't really necessary to mention that. The section quoted is where the feature is described in the manual and help files. The greater context of when battles begin, the use of the attack planner, sequencing, et cetera, is described in other portions of the manual and help files. It will fall on new players to read the manual to learn how to play the game, for returning players to refresh themselves, and for grognards to spot any changes we neglect to mention in the various preview and feature lists that we publish before the release.

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:02 am
by golden delicious
ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

One thing that Jamian forgot to mention (I'm sure he just forgot [;)]) was that this a setting of 3 does NOT mean that combat will stop on rounds 4, 7 and 10. If you move a unit across the map and attack,using up 9 rounds in moving before attacking, The battle will start on round 9, and then last one round, and the turn will end. This is not something totally brainless that you can rely on, you're going to have to think a little, and make some decisions.

Good.

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:09 pm
by Raindem
I don't understand the max level of 99. If there are still only 10 rounds in a turn then any value 10-99 is the same. Or does a round of battle does not equate to a round of the turn?

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:36 pm
by DanNeely
I'm fairly sure shock messes with the numbers somehow, beyond that a default value of HUGE means nothing will break if the max number of rounds/turn is increased.

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:58 pm
by Jeremy Mac Donald
ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

One thing that Jamian forgot to mention (I'm sure he just forgot [;)]) was that this a setting of 3 does NOT mean that combat will stop on rounds 4, 7 and 10. If you move a unit across the map and attack,using up 9 rounds in moving before attacking, The battle will start on round 9, and then last one round, and the turn will end. This is not something totally brainless that you can rely on, you're going to have to think a little, and make some decisions.
I didn't "forget". More of an active neglect really, since it wasn't really necessary to mention that. The section quoted is where the feature is described in the manual and help files. The greater context of when battles begin, the use of the attack planner, sequencing, et cetera, is described in other portions of the manual and help files. It will fall on new players to read the manual to learn how to play the game, for returning players to refresh themselves, and for grognards to spot any changes we neglect to mention in the various preview and feature lists that we publish before the release.
OK I'm sold ... where do I send my money order?

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:13 am
by Rob322
So, a few threads entitled "release countdown." Where's the countdown at? [8D][;)] A day? A week? A month?

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:25 am
by ralphtricky
When it's done.[;)] No news means good news. <insert aphorism here> We slowed down a little for Easter. We're finishing up a lot of little tasks, and several features crept up at the last moment. I think you'll like them.

Ralph
Programmer, TOAW 3

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:37 am
by Jeff Norton
Dumb question time, but what language is TOAW written in, if you can say?

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:54 am
by ralphtricky
ORIGINAL: Jeff Norton

Dumb question time, but what language is TOAW written in, if you can say?
It was originally written in C. I suspect that it started life as a DOS program, that's how long Norm worked on it. It now compiles cleanly under C++ (Visual Studio 2005), although it's not Object Oriented yet. Aside from the sound and graphics library, it allocates no memory, so it is very, very fast.

The graphics is all done by GDI calls, and the new sound library theoretically doesn't require Directx, although it supports it by default.

Aside from the fact that it's written in C and so has numerous global variables, it's pretty well written. I've seen code that's a lot less well written.

Ralph

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:58 pm
by sstevens06
ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

...several features crept up at the last moment. I think you'll like them.

Ralph
Programmer, TOAW 3


Oh no, the dreaded 'scope creep!' [X(] (I'm sure it'll be worth the wait...thanks for the update.)

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:08 pm
by ralphtricky
ORIGINAL: sstevens06

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

...several features crept up at the last moment. I think you'll like them.

Ralph
Programmer, TOAW 3


Oh no, the dreaded 'scope creep!' [X(] (I'm sure it'll be worth the wait...thanks for the update.)
No problem. They were almost all minor changes that are easily tested, not major ones that are likely to break anything. Things like a button on the scenario selection screen that will launch any attached documentation It looks for .htm, pdf, .doc, .txt files with the scenario name and will launch them if they exist.

There was one very time consuming change to the code, but it's one that's easily tested. You'll hear about that one later.


RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:15 pm
by macgregor
I took the 'no news is good news' as a positive development. IOW it's good news in that Ralph is pleased with the progress, yet no news in that he can't say what that progress is yet. That's all I would expect. It's when nobody posts that I begin to think the progress has slowed.

RE: Release Countdown! TOAW 3 Feature Preview #5

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:17 am
by ralphtricky
ORIGINAL: macgregor
I took the 'no news is good news' as a positive development. IOW it's good news in that Ralph is pleased with the progress, yet no news in that he can't say what that progress is yet. That's all I would expect. It's when nobody posts that I begin to think the progress has slowed.
Today was spent working on the scrolling credits screen.[8D] There are too many things outside of my control for me to set a date, and I need to finish the last piece of the major update (3-4 hours of work max), and it needs to be tested before I can say for certain that it will be included.